OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Help W / Low light scope selection
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Help W / Low light scope selection

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 15:50
Yes, IOR does have a rheostat with seven ( I think) illumination levels, but the lowest setting is still brighter than I like.  In all fairness almost all illuminated reticle scopes this side of S&B are brighter than I like.

ILya
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:31
O.K., I do see preset illumination levels as a potential problem.  Nighforce, for example has a continuous rheostat, where the brightness level is infinitely adjustable all the way down to almost completely off.  Have you tried the new Kahles CSX scopes?  Despite the rather hefty price tag, I'm intrigued by these.  The product description seems to indicate that perhaps it has an infinitely adjustable rheostat as well, but I'm not sure of that.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:37
I have not used new Kahles CSX.  I very seldom use illumination, so it is not a major concern for me anyway.  Nightforce scopes are very good, but I generally prefer IOR glass.

ILya
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 16:54
I like what I hear about IOR's optics (I hear they use Schott glass with Zeiss T coatings), I like the MP8 reticle for a varmint scope, and their prices for what you get are very intriguing.  For a general hunting scope, I may someday consider an IOR.  For a varmint scope, however, all the models I'd be interested in have the d@mn 35mm tube dia.  I realize that SWFA sells them with rings included, but I'd want to use a different style of rings.  Other than increased W/E adjustment range, what's the advantage of 35mm, and why did they decide to adopt this unorthodox tube dia?
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 17:04
There is nothing magical about Schott glass.  A bunch of companies use it.  It is simply quality bulk glass.  What the company makes of it is what matters.  As for coatings, it is a common myth that IOR uses Zeiss coatings.  IOR is not affiliated with Zeiss in any way.  They have their own coatings that are actually very good.  Current IOR coatings are called MC7.  In the past they used simpler coatings called T3.

35mm allows for larger internal lenses which helps with system design and resolution.  Also, 35mm IOR have a 6x erector system which benefits from the extra real estate.  Strength is another benefit: thicker tube scopes are typically a bit stronger.  A few manufacturers are going toward thicker tubes, I think.  S&B has 34mm scopes.  US Optics also offers larger tubes.

ILya
Back to Top
www.technika.nu View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/02/2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote www.technika.nu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 17:21

I have used the Kahles CSX quite a lot and I like it a lot.

The illumination is great.

 

But the illumination on the IOR is absolutely useless and here is why.

 

I can see potentially two different situations when you need illumination.

1. When its to dark to see the reticle without illumintion.

2. For very fast shots.

 

The IOR is useless in nights as you cant see anything through it when the illumination is turned on.

The illumination does not get bright enogf to be used daytime and there for its also non ideal for those purposes either.

 

Regards Technika

Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 17:21

Thanks very much for the info, Koshkin!  I realize there's nothing special about the glass itself, but I too thought IOR used the same lenses and coatings as Zeiss, largely due to my misconstrued understanding of the history summary on SWFA's opening order page for IOR scopes.

 

My objection to the 35mm tube dia really stems from the fact that the very rifle I considered mounting an IOR on is a long range varmint/benchrest rifle with a custom action featuring Davidson style mount bases, and I'm not aware of anyone offering 35mm rings to fit Davidson bases.



Edited by RifleDude
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 17:32
Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

I have used the Kahles CSX quite a lot and I like it a lot.

The illumination is great.

 

But the illumination on the IOR is absolutely useless and here is why.

 

I can see potentially two different situations when you need illumination.

1. When its to dark to see the reticle without illumintion.

2. For very fast shots.

 

The IOR is useless in nights as you cant see anything through it when the illumination is turned on.

The illumination does not get bright enogf to be used daytime and there for its also non ideal for those purposes either.

 

Regards Technika



You must have used an older IOR scope.  I can double check when I get home but the illumination on my IORs is definitely bright enough to speed up target acquisition in bright light when on highest setting.  Did you say that the scope you used is a 56mm objective with green illumination?  Then it is one of the older IOR designs.  Current scopes are much different.

Also, if you are looking for a low light hunting scope, you should take a look at IOR's hunting scopes with 4a or illuminaed 4a reticles.  MP8 is really not designed for hunting.  It works well for long range shooting and military/LE applications.

ILya


Edited by koshkin
Back to Top
Trinidad View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: May/04/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1555
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 17:36
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Thanks very much for the info, Koshkin!  I realize there's nothing special about the glass itself, but I too thought IOR used the same lenses and coatings as Zeiss, largely due to my misconstrued understanding of the history summary on SWFA's opening order page for IOR scopes.

 

My objection to the 35mm tube dia really stems from the fact that the very rifle I considered mounting an IOR on is a long range varmint/benchrest rifle with a custom action featuring Davidson style mount bases, and I'm not aware of anyone offering 35mm rings to fit Davidson bases.

 

RifleDude get the Kahles in your prefered RFP, this will make a exellent scope for the type of shooting you like.

IOR 35's are very good but I think you will be happier with the Kahles.

Back to Top
Dolphin View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: October/05/2006
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1795
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 20:29
I am going to take a back seat to the IOR scopes and stick with the standard 1 inch scope diameters for simplicity.  I have never found a hunting situation where I could have benefited from these special situations where I could not have made the shot.  Coating are coating and come in a variety of types, usually a variation of the same themes.  And when it gets back to the basics, blind testing is what is needed to sort out all the hype.  I think it is great that you guys have the money and time to spend on these scopes.   I wish I had both, but just the time to switch out scopes and compare the differences is more time than I have available.  Personally, I guess I have a bias against Eastern Block companies and would stick with the Kahles, if I could afford them.  IRs, I could take them or leave them.  The Bushnells I recommended would serve canine just fine for his needs and save him a boat load of money.  Down south, you just do not see many of these other scopes, as the good ole boys are as good a shooters as anybody and they use some pretty basic stuff, other than those Leupold fanatics.
Back to Top
www.technika.nu View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/02/2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote www.technika.nu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2007 at 23:09

Dolphin

 

You are probaly right, i never tought about it could be older as i borrowed it new from the importer.

But now when i look at the pictures at riflescope.com i can see it's not the same scope.

The one i have here has the rheostat on the okular while the one on riflescope.com has it on the side.

 

The reticle is 4a. illuminated.

 

Regards Technika

Back to Top
canine View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/31/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 00:46
thanks for all of the replies.  I went with a Meopta Meostar R1 RD 3 - 12 X 56 Illuminated 4C reticle.  Awsome clarity.  It is 1:43 AM here with a near full moon.  I can see whatever I want to.  The illumination turned all the way down is almost hard to see in total darkness.  definatly not a problem with glare from the illumination.  I really like the reticle size changing with the increase in power.  I am going to the range tomorrow.  Will post results.  By the way, It is mounted on a Remington 700 P in 7MM rem mag. 
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 13:14
Originally posted by SVD666 SVD666 wrote:

RifleDude get the Kahles in your prefered RFP, this will make a exellent scope for the type of shooting you like.

IOR 35's are very good but I think you will be happier with the Kahles.

 

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm talking about 2 diff scopes here.  The Kahles CSX I'm considering  -- a 1.5-6X42 w/4a/illum circle dot is for my low light/nighttime hog/coyote rifle.  the IOR discussion was really OT to the thread, in response to Koshkin's post.  The scope I'm considering for the BR/varmint rig mentioned above (for which the IOR was a candidate) is to be mounted on a custom Nesika BR action/Hart 1000yd BR contour barreled/Jewell 2oz. trigger rifle bedded in a solid aluminum stock, chambered in 6mm BR.  I want 36X on the upper end for group shooting, and I want super thin MP8 or similar type reticle for plenty of W/E hold points for long range PD shooting.  I also want extremely rugged, dependable adjustments and SF.  Barring $2000K+ USOs, the only high-end brands I'm aware of that offer this combination of features is IOR and Nightforce.  NF is dominant among competitive 1000yd BR because of its super thin reticle options, very stable adjustments, and decent optics.  I also already own a NF scope, so I know what to expect there.  I was very intrigued by IOR, but I'd have to address the 35mm rings issue, and I already have a nice set of lapped Kelbly 30mm rings on the rifle.

Thanks very much for your input regardless!

 

P.S.  Didn't mean to highjack your thread, canine.  I've heard some really good reports about Meopta optics.



Edited by RifleDude
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
Trinidad View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: May/04/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1555
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 13:25

Good deal rifledude, let us know what you decide on.

 

Canine I look foreward to your range observations.

Back to Top
canine View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/31/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2007 at 17:25
So far so good at the range.  Made it through 15 of the 20 break in rounds today.  Will be back at the range tommorrow to start looking at some groups of three.  Already seeing sub MOA with Winchester Power points and Federal Accubounds (150 Gr. and 160 Gr. respectivly).  Will try to post a pick of the rifle with a target if I can figure it out tomorrow.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.496 seconds.