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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2007 at 22:14
DriBak View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I am a newbie who just mounted a Leatherwood 1200 on a Rem 700 PSS, trying to use a leupold zero magnetic boresighter I run out of elevation trying to get it boresighted. This is with the "up" turret set half way between the total # of clicks it has. How do I know if I need to shim the scope or not ?

The first time I took the set up to the range I did the "look thru the bore" boresight and was low and to the left at 25 yards, and ran out of elevation clicks. That is when I borrowed the leupold boresighter and I still run out of clicks trying to boresight the scope.
The scope only has 50 rounds thru it I bought it from a friend that replaced it with a Leupold M4

Do you count out the clicks on both turrets and then wind down 1/2 way ? I don't want to spend a lot of money on ammo getting this dialed in.
I bought the rifle almost 10 years ago when they were saying it would be a "letter head only" item. It came with a Simmons 44 mag scope that was already sighted in with the remington base. i have the LW on a leupold 2 piece weaver type base.
Thanks for all the help.


Edited by DriBak
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 08:52
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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To your credit, it was a "letterhead only" item at one time - and most stores still don't carry them.  I own 2 PSSs, they are great rifles at a great price.

 

As for the scope, I have no direct experience with Leatherwood and don't want to lead you astray.  I can tell you that being in the center of adjustment range matters not if you aren't on target.  Can you get on paper?  You said you didn't have enough elevation, is that to zero or to have adjustment left after zero?

 

It may be the base. it may be the mount; the fun part is solving the problem.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 10:07
DriBak View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Thanks for your reply! 28 views and only your response
At 25 yards I was low and left and ran out of clicks to zero at 25 yards, which I know now was incorrect to do (zero at 25). If I can be "on paper" at 25 yards will I be on paper at 100 yards ? My range has 25, 100 and 200 yards where i can place targets and go down range. It also has a 500 meter gong where one can not walk down range.  I will try to zero the LW at 100 using the first top bar.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 14:17
RONK View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
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  I wouldn't worry too much  centering up the scope's mechanicals just yet. Like Rancid said, that won't matter if you can't get on paper.  Also, put the boresighting device away and do it the old -fashioned way, as you indicated that you had attempted to do. This time though, block the rifle up solidly on sandbags to look through the bore and center it on an object about 100 to 200 yards away, ( 25 yards is a little too close to give us really accurate results.) The object should be about a foot in diameter,  and light -colored against a darker background if possible. Move the sandbags around as necessary to center the object off in the distance, in the bore. Block the rifle solidly in place in that position, and DON'T BUMP IT during the next step.  Now, with the help of an assistant, if available, carefully dial the scope's turrets until the crosshairs touch the bottom edge of the object. ( If the crosshairs are initially above the object, you have to turn the elevation dial in the "UP" direction, and if they are to the left, you will need to turn the windage dial "LEFT"). This is the opposite of sighting in by shooting and adjusting according to point of impact. It can fake you out if you don't pay close attention to what you are doing. Do it as I outlined above, though, and you should be on paper at 100 yards, unless there is something else going on.

 What you just did, then, was to get your crosshairs adjusted to where the bullet will land, after dropping a few inches from the line of bore. It will be within a few inches, with most flat-shooting centerfire cartridges unless you have other serious accuracy issues.

  After you get on paper, shoot a few groups to see if the scope tracks correctly and holds zero,  then you can determine if you need to shim,etc. to shoot at longer ranges or whatever. Check back and let us know how it comes together!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 17:23
DriBak View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Just got back from the range, there was an older gentleman there kind enough to spot for me and give me some pointers. At 100 yards I am 6 inches low with the elevation turret clicked all the way up (raising point of impact) looking thru the Leatherwood 1200 no math ml-dot I the point of impact is at the first cross bar under the main cross hair. The adjustment knobs seem to track just fine I can move the point of impact left and right and DOWN but just can't raise it up. Local shop told me to shim under the front base ( I have the Leupold 2 piece weaver base). Would I click the elevation turret  1/2 down and then shim, have heard about guys using strips of electrical tape as ships, what does 1 piece of tape give me? have also read about shooters using pieces of aluminum beverage can. is it best or more effective to shim under the ring or base, front or rear. Sorry If I'm being such a cherry but my deal has always been he AR platform with a HOLO sight out to 100 yards max. This LONG distance stuff is new to me. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 17:49
RONK View Drop Down
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Originally posted by DriBak DriBak wrote:

Just got back from the range, there was an older gentleman there kind enough to spot for me and give me some pointers. At 100 yards I am 6 inches low with the elevation turret clicked all the way up (raising point of impact) looking thru the Leatherwood 1200 no math ml-dot I the point of impact is at the first cross bar under the main cross hair. The adjustment knobs seem to track just fine I can move the point of impact left and right and DOWN but just can't raise it up. Local shop told me to shim under the front base ( I have the Leupold 2 piece weaver base). Would I click the elevation turret  1/2 down and then shim, have heard about guys using strips of electrical tape as ships, what does 1 piece of tape give me? have also read about shooters using pieces of aluminum beverage can. is it best or more effective to shim under the ring or base, front or rear. Sorry If I'm being such a cherry but my deal has always been he AR platform with a HOLO sight out to 100 yards max. This LONG distance stuff is new to me. 

 

  Local shop advised you incorrectly. You need to shim the rear base up, not the front one.

 A one-piece base with 15 or 20 minutes of elevation slope may be a better solution

  Get out a calipers and measure the distance between the rings on your setup and I will then be able to tell you how much shimming you need to move it a given distance at a specified yardage. Measure from the center of the front ring to the center of the rear ring.

 An accurate measurement with a ruler will actually be accurate enough to get quite close.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 19:00
RONK View Drop Down
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  Also, if you do decide to shim, centering your internals and then shimming externally to zero at 100 yards may be a good idea, unless you plan to shoot long range. 700 yards plus?? If you do that, you may run out of elevation again, depending on the ballistics of whatever cartridge you are using, and the amount of internal adjustment your scope really has built into it. If you are going to shoot longer distances without a tapered base, you need to shim externally  to zero at 100 yards with the elevation dial cranked nearly all the way "DOWN" . What this does is it allows you to get a 100 yard zero and still have nearly all of the scope's internal "UP" adjustment available to run the distance. BTW, do not use tape to shim. Steel, aluminum or very hard plastic only. Tape is too soft. Incidently, shim under the appropriate base only. Shimming the tube might work, but I personally wouldn't trust it to clamp properly.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 20:50
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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I hate to be the one to break it to you but throw the leatherwood away and buy a Super Sniper 10x and step into a whole new world of things working right. I had a leatherwood and it is junk, they are made in china most likely and they are NOT the scope that the original leatherwood scopes were. Leupold makes some scopes with M2 and M3 dials in their mid range and long range tactical mark 4 series.  They correct for trajectory but I will tell you that for most people they wind up not liking those scopes and prefer the 1/4 moa per click M1 type knobs. Use a Badger Rings and Base or at least Warne and put a 10x Super Sniper on it and you will save yourself a lot of grief.

 

I would really like to see just how that fool at the gun shop shims a front ring down. anything you place above the scope under the top half of the ring does nothing the bottom of the scope stays in the same place, DUH.

 

As for shims pieces of aluminum pop can work quite nicely but you would never need to shim a Super Sniper because they have a huge amount of internal adjustment.



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2007 at 22:41
RONK View Drop Down
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 We don't know that the scope isn't one of the originals, or that it is malfunctioning at all. Dri-bak indicated that it was tracking well in the directions in which he had travel remaining. That is always a good sign. In my experience, when a scope fails mechanically, failure to track is the first symptom.

 Why don't we run a few more rounds through it before we throw it out?

Set up a BIG, clean target at say 50 yards. Fire three shots at the same aiming point. If they are all in the same place, we are holding zero. Good. Now we can dial, say for example 20 minutes "right" and fire three more ( all at the original aiming point). That group is 10 inches to the right of the first group? ( remember, we are at 50 yards, not 100). Good. Now 20 minutes "down" and three more shots, then 40 minutes "left", three more., then 20 min."up".Three more. 20 minutes to the right should put you back in the original three-shot group. Aim carefully at the same exact same point throughout this test.

 For less than the cost of a box of shells we can determine if we are tracking properly before we go out and spend 300 bucks on a new scope. ( For that matter, we can do pretty much the same thing with one shot at each setting.)

 You could also run the full adjustment range on wind and elevation to get an idea of how much travel you have before hitting the stops.

 I know it sounds like a lot of trouble, but your problem may be nothing more than misaligned rings. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide...

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