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Help pickng out my first 5.56 rifle...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 07:51
bird_hunter66 View Drop Down
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I am in the market for my first AR style rifle.  Actually I have the M&P S&W .22 already but want something in a larger caliber now.  I bought the .22 to learn the function and action of and AR style rifle.  I am looking to spend up to $1500 on a new rifle.  I want one with a chrome lined barrel, free floated barrel, chrome lined receiver and bolt carrier.  I'm looking at a Daniel's Defense M4V11 LW, S&W TS model, and the Sig model 400.  Any other suggestion of rifles that I should look at or stay away from?  I don't have to spent the $1500 but want a good reliable, accurate, and long lasting rifle.  I don't plan to shoot it every week or 10's of thousands of rounds in a few years.  Looking for a rifle to target shoot and maybe varmit hunt with from time to time.

Would I be better to order parts and build my own AR?  Or should I buy a $500-$600 AR and replace the parts on it to get the gun that I want?  What kind of optics for it do you guys suggest?  Also what kind of accessories do you guy suggest me looking into for the rifle?  Thanks in advance.  bird_hunter66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 08:08
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Chief Sackscratch

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http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-AR-15-Match-Rifle-16-SS-Match-223-MCSR12-P72541.aspx



SWFA SS AR-15 Match Rifle 16" SS Match .223, MCSR12
Stock # - SWFASSAR10
  • 16" Stainless Match .223 Wylde (.223/5.56 Nato)
  • 12" SWFA SS MCSR Modular Rail System
  • Mid-Length Gas System
  • Cerakote Finish Options;
    • Sacrosanct
    • Patriot Brown
    • Anarchy Gray
    • Flat Dark Earth
  • FFL REQUIRED for shipment.


$1,299.95 < name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl11$Price$VS" id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl11_Price_VS" ="" value="SsOsqYxoBGJgZto46jdnkI3Y9YXmwVZME9IoXmWPfPhA6Uzj16h0Zy4jbdszBhb/">
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 08:09
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Chief Sackscratch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 08:17
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The one svt listed spec wise is one of the best ars available. You could not buy the parts to build the rifle your self for that price. its a steal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 08:28
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Rifles are personal… I can only tell you my experience.  If I had it all to do over again, I would, first and foremost, purchase a New Evolution Military Ordinance (NEMO) Tango 2… if going with 5.56.  (not my favorite round by any means, but fairly cheap ammo that can be had pretty much anywhere).  I have a NEMO Omen Recon (.300 WinMag) and it is the best rifle I own for all around usage… hunting, self-defense, CQB, long range. Some say you can't have one that "does it all"… my experience is different.  There are compensation methods for deficienies in any particular category… learn it, "be the gun"…  NEMO is also making a 7.62x39 now… VERY interesting…  They are a little more expensive than the "average" AR, but, TO ME, well worth the "extra".  
In lieu of a 5.56, I find the 6.5 Grendel to be a superior round.  Alexander Arms builds the "cream of the crop" in this caliber, since they created it.  My favorite "other gun"…
In the 7.62x51 line, NEMO if you want an AR style, FN FNAR if you want a highly accurate "Designated Marksman"-type rifle that CAN be pressed into long range usage.  Closest thing to a PSG-1 I've had my hands on.  It does NOT, however, have the "modifiability" of the AR platform… you get pretty much what you buy off the shelf. 
Did you see H&K won the Marine SASS replacement/upgrade contract?  Might look at those.  

The SWFA line fits into the "above average" category… 

There are decent lower cost AR's out there… depends on what you want to depend on.  I've got a basic DPMS lower that I swap a lot of uppers on… works, but no premium cigar.  
Just MY thoughts on the much hated/loved AR (I don't really love them, but some do).  I suggest, overall, spending the money up front… get a "top of the line" to begin with.  Less headaches, more dependability, better odds it will be there when you need it… spend "the time" learning to maintain and use it effectively…
My $0.01 on the subject.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 08:57
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Is the $1500 your "all in" budget, meaning rifle, optic and mount, and all other little stuff?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 10:23
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No the price is just for the rifle at this point.  I would like to shoot it for a while with the flip up/iron sites for a while before I add and optic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 11:59
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Okay, so the SWFA is a great deal, but will need flip-up sites.

Daniel Defense makes a great gun too.

With no AR background, I wouldn't start with a home-made option, as you will be your own tech support person, and that is tough with no background.  And buying a cheapo AR and replacing parts, in the long run, that'll cost you more.  If you have the budget, get a nice gun now and enjoy it for awhile.

At what ranges will you be shooting? Will you be shooting from a bench or supported position or off-hand - or other?

Do you shoot righty or lefty or both?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 12:38
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I shoot right handed.  I will be shooting from a bench, tripod, and free handed.  Probably shooting $50-300/400 yards max.  Like you said I really just want to do this one time and buy the best gun for the price and if I have to buy stuff to add to it I can do that later on.  I guess the biggest accessory that I would add would be some type of optic. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 13:01
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http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-AR-15-Match-Rifle-16-SS-Match-223-MCSR12-P72541.aspx

I'm going to agree with SVT on this one. That's a good deal on a rifle and will fit all your needs and requirements You don't need chromed bolt groups or bores, especially with a SS barrel. By the time you go out and buy all the tools and manuals that you will need to build a rifle along with the parts, you wont beat this price. That and your first rifle build almost always looks home made. Not to mention the does it work factor.

Accessories: You don't need much, a basic manual so you can field strip and clean it, one piece cleaning rod (Tipton graphite) with bore brush, chamber brush, jag, slotted jag, and bore guide for proper cleaning. A sling or three to fit your needs, and maybe a quick detach sling swivel. A 10 or 20 round magazine (for shooting off a bench). That should do it to start. You may pick some whizz bang tool up later on, but this will get you started.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 13:16
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On optics: There are a ton of scopes that will fit your needs for the 50-400yd. range. I will suggest two. The SWFA SS 3-9x40 http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx  and the SWFA SS 1-6x24 http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx Either will fit your needs; it just depends on what distance will be the majority of your shooting , 50yds or 400yds.

Of course there are other scopes, but I have the 3-9, and it's hard to beat for the money, and I would love to get my hands on the 1-6.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 17:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 18:02
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You WOULD have to choose THAT one...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 18:20
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Colt LE 6920 or a variant, is a wonderful option for a guys first AR, IMHO. Buying a "built gun" is silly, if you have no prior AR experience. How do you know what you want, if you don't know? You know?  Wink

Buying a "cheapo" is throwing money in the trash, as Rancid alluded to.     

Colt 6920 is a terrific first/last AR. If I were to unload my Bravo Middy, (which I'm not) I would pick up a Colt and call it a day. 
(Save my pennies for a forged receiver M-1A.) Big Grin  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 18:33
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I'm telling you what, that SWFA purpose built Seekins is one slick puppy! I love my 300 blkout version and I was a AR FNG when I bought mine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2016 at 20:30
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If I were in the market for another AR. I would go with a JP complete lower with a White Oak Armament complete upper. For less than $1200 you would have a very accurate AR. I have a number of complete JP lowers and love their triggers. But the Seekins from SWFA would also be a great choice. Plus you would very likely have it much sooner that you would going with a WOA upper. The wait for a WOA upper is quite long.

Also I wouldn't build an AR especially my first one. The vast majority of ARs that I see with problems are the ones build from parts. There is more to it than than one thinks.




Edited by Sparky - April/15/2016 at 20:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2016 at 06:52
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

 

Also I wouldn't build an AR especially my first one. The vast majority of ARs that I see with problems are the ones build from parts. There is more to it than than one thinks.



Egg-xactly. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2016 at 07:43
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Chief Sackscratch

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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

If I were in the market for another AR. I would go with a JP complete lower with a White Oak Armament complete upper. For less than $1200 you would have a very accurate AR. I have a number of complete JP lowers and love their triggers. But the Seekins from SWFA would also be a great choice. Plus you would very likely have it much sooner that you would going with a WOA upper. The wait for a WOA upper is quite long.

Also I wouldn't build an AR especially my first one. The vast majority of ARs that I see with problems are the ones build from parts. There is more to it than than one thinks.



Having owned several WOA uppers and the SWFA AR, you'll find that they both shoot lights out I sold my WOA when I got the SWFA AR simply because the SWFA is a matched upper/lower (both are serialized although I believe that's just because they are fitted together at the manufacturer) and the fit/finish is second to none.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2016 at 08:18
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I would pick a swfa over the white oak. White oak uses non handlapped wilson air gauged barrels. Swfa is a hand lapped rock creek barrel. Not that a wilson air gauged is not extremerly accurate. But there are benefits to a hand lapped barrel that would get my vote. Plus the swfa (seekins) upper and lower have some neat upgrades over a standard forged upper and lower that white oak uses.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2016 at 20:42
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There are plenty good AR's out there. I got a SW MP15 and really like it. It's the magoul MOE model. I just built my first one using an anderson lower and parts kit with a PSA freedom stainless upper. There is a noticeable difference in feel. SW is more refined.

If I was gonna buy one knowing what I know now I think I'd get a psa lower with the parts i wanted already assembled and then get the upper i wanted with all the furniture i wanted to go with it.

The beauty of an AR is you can pimp it out the way you want. Get what you like. Want a mickle boron bcg it's easy enough. WNt fde furniture or some funky stock? Do it. Just realize this stuff adds up in a hurry. Good luck and have fun with it.
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