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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2007 at 22:14
bricat View Drop Down
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What is the reason for these small scopes with the small objective lenses that I often see on dangerous game rifles? For example , the Kahles 1.1x4x24 or the Leupold 1.5x5x20. I thought that there was an advantage to having a larger objective lens? Is this a bright light only scope? What about field of view? Is the field of view adequate enough for most hunting applications or is this a special purpose scope? Thanks for any and all input, Bricat
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2007 at 23:36
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Good question, bricat. I sell a Seeadler 1.5-4.5x21mm that is made for dangerous game. I also know that there are many who hunt with these small scopes and will not have anything else. For the life of me , I don't see the purpose, since I like large (50mm and up ) objective scopes. But I guess to each his own.

Come on guys, what gives with these smaller and lower powered scopes ?
Derek 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2007 at 23:59
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When you are hunting animals  that can kill you, you want a low power large field of view scope that allows you get on target quickly and track that animal. Same deal with reddot sights quickly aquire a sight picture and dispatch your target.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 00:23
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Is the field of view affected by the size of the objective lens or by the magnification power?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 00:51
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the lower the power of magnafication the greater the field of veiw.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 01:00
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Bricat..................Here are the reasons why the lower power variables with the small objective lenses are better for the shorter ranges, especially when hunting dangerous game!.................1) The lower power at 1.5x offers a tremendous field of view for much quicker target acquisition at the shorter ranges. For comparison, look at the FOV dimensions at 1.5x with a 20mm or a 24mm objective. Then compare the FOV dimensions set at 3x with a 3-9x40!! You will discover that at the 1.5x that there is a much wider FOV.....................2) Also, with the straighter tubes and smaller objectives, the scope can be mounter lower over the receiver to match a drop in a particular stock.....................3) Lighter weight. A few ounces does make a difference in quicker target acquisition. A split second can and will make a difference between life and death given the right circumstances....................4) In reality a 1.5x4 or a 1.5x6 is all that is needed for a DGR application.................The small objective diameter of say 20 to 28mm on these scopes or a small scout scope really does not determine FOV anyway! It is the power setting that does that!...........................I will buy a .375 for my `09 or `10 African trip. The best possible scope that I can find so far for the quickest target acquisition, allowing both eyes to remain open like a scout scope is the Trijicon 1.5X4X24, requiring no batteries. I was leaning towards the 3x9. But remember that on a guided hunt, your dangerous game such as the big bears, caped buffs will more than likely be taken at less than 150 yards. And on non-dangerous game a 4x is adequate for large moose, elk etc. out to 300 and 400 yards!....................Good question on your part. Go into the sites and compare for yourself the FOV specs with scopes that have the smaller objectives. You just may be pleasantly surprised....WinkWinkWinkWink..................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 01:27
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BigSqueeze is right on the money. It is mostly about quick target acquisition. A small scope handles easier and the low power setting allows for a wide FOV. When I hunted bushbuck off hounds, I also used a 1,5-5x20. Poor light becomes a problem with the small Obj lens.
When I started hunting kudu etc at longer distances I went for the big brother-3,5-10x40.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 01:36
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Bricat and Huntmaster.........................Here is a small example that I did not include in my last post!! I will use the Trijicon scopes as the example, but this will also apply to the other scopes as well that use the same lower powered variables................ Set on 3x, a 3x9 by 40mm objective Trijicon has a 33' 8" FOV at 100 yards. But! The 1.5x4 by 24mm objective set on 1.5x has a 61' 6" FOV at 100 yards! There is a wider FOV with the lower power variable EVEN THOUGH its objective is only 24 mm......The objective diameter makes very little difference and is not the determining factor as far as FOV is concerned......For this reason as Huntmaster pointed out, is the reason why big dangerous game hunters love the lower powered, smaller objective variables........Make sense for you now?....Hope that helped!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 01:45
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8 Shots...............Smaller objectives will have less light. BUT!!!! When you have the illuminated reticle like that beautiful Trijicon amber arrow, any low light conditions won`t matter with that scope!!!......I looked through one the other day and believe me, the smaller objective won`t matter. Until someone points out a better alternative, a Trijicon will be mounted on my future .375 purchase!!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 05:45
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Big squeeze, these Trijicon scopes look interesting. I've never really took a serious look at them before. What can you tell me about them-durability, glass quality, etc...? Bricat
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 07:43
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Originally posted by bricat bricat wrote:

Big squeeze, these Trijicon scopes look interesting. I've never really took a serious look at them before. What can you tell me about them-durability, glass quality, etc...? Bricat
 
talk to dolphin he just bought a trijicon scope about a month ago or so.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 07:58
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They are located in SE Michigan and the glass is from Japan. Machining and assembly is here.
I called them awhile back and they were nice to deal with on the phone.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 08:08
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Originally posted by HuntMaster HuntMaster wrote:

Good question, bricat. I sell a Seeadler 1.5-4.5x21mm that is made for dangerous game. ......   Come on guys, what gives with these smaller and lower powered scopes ?

Derek 
 
WOW  have we got a learning curve here -  OK I think at this point the good guys have clearly stated lower power means wider field of view, but the real issue here is the whole reason to be concerned about the size of the objective on any scope is how it relates to exit eye pupil.  EX:  a fixed 6 power scope with a 42 mm objective - to determine the exit eye pupil size take 42 and divide by 6 which gives you a 7mm exit eye pupil.  How much does your eye pupil dialate in the dark - a young guy might benefit from a 7mm exit eye pupil and a 50 yr old guy might only be able to benefit from a 5mm exit eye pupil.  Now with that in mind  a 1x scope would only have to have a 7mm objective and a 2x scope would only have to have a 14 mm objective and a 3x scope would only have to have a 21mm objective and so on.  The 3x scope with a 21mm objective and its 7mm exit eye pupil  will be much brighter than a 3-9x40 set on 9x   (40 divided by 9 =  4.44mm exit eye pupil ) Here is the kicker a 50 yr old guy whos eyes only dialate to 5mm probably wont care but a 20 yr old will benefit from the difference significantly.
From this we see it is pointless to make a   1x to 3x scope with a 50mm objective.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 09:07
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WTG Urimaginary, So many have said it in the past, you said it again and it's very simple. There should be a sticky on some of the more simple info pertaining to optics. It'll come up again in a couple of months.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 09:28
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There are a couple of other points that should get honorable mention too.  The field of view is controled by the occular or back lens, not the front or objective.  It's the size of the screen not the size of the projector for lack of a better metafore.  Second by keeping the scope low it improves the survivablity of the scope.  The parts get a little less shake, because they are on a shorter arc ride, and its less of a brush cacher. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 09:31
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Squeeze,
Get a CZ stocked to fit you or get Empire (what's left of Wells and Wells) to hand make you one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 09:49
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Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

There are a couple of other points that should get honorable mention too.  The field of view is controled by the occular or back lens, not the front or objective.  It's the size of the screen not the size of the projector for lack of a better metafore.  Second by keeping the scope low it improves the survivablity of the scope.  The parts get a little less shake, because they are on a shorter arc ride, and its less of a brush cacher. 


Well pointed out silver........its the occular that controls the FOV size in a given power largely. Second by being less mass, recoil has less damaging effect.

   Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 10:05
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there are 2 kinds of hunting-- animals that charge and those that don't.  A bull elk busting out of timber at 25 yards is just as dangerous as african game, and they have been practicing running through thick sh*t all year with that head set. The size of the scope is pretty secondary to how good of iron sites you have as back up. As far as hunting dangerous game at nite--be my quest
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 10:06
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by HuntMaster HuntMaster wrote:

Good question, bricat. I sell a Seeadler 1.5-4.5x21mm that is made for dangerous game. ......   Come on guys, what gives with these smaller and lower powered scopes ?

Derek 
 
WOW  have we got a learning curve here -  OK I think at this point the good guys have clearly stated lower power means wider field of view, but the real issue here is the whole reason to be concerned about the size of the objective on any scope is how it relates to exit eye pupil.  EX:  a fixed 6 power scope with a 42 mm objective - to determine the exit eye pupil size take 42 and divide by 6 which gives you a 7mm exit eye pupil.  How much does your eye pupil dialate in the dark - a young guy might benefit from a 7mm exit eye pupil and a 50 yr old guy might only be able to benefit from a 5mm exit eye pupil.  Now with that in mind  a 1x scope would only have to have a 7mm objective and a 2x scope would only have to have a 14 mm objective and a 3x scope would only have to have a 21mm objective and so on.  The 3x scope with a 21mm objective and its 7mm exit eye pupil  will be much brighter than a 3-9x40 set on 9x   (40 divided by 9 =  4.44mm exit eye pupil ) Here is the kicker a 50 yr old guy whos eyes only dialate to 5mm probably wont care but a 20 yr old will benefit from the difference significantly.
From this we see it is pointless to make a   1x to 3x scope with a 50mm objective.
 
Well put, I could not have said it better myself!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 17:20
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Bricat!!!.................One of the things that intrigue me about the Trijicon is the users ability to keep both eyes open while targeting. That makes for much quicker target acquisition. That is like a scout scope (which I also use) but it is not mounted in the scout position on the barrel forward of the action.......Another thing I like about the Trijicon is its illuminated arrow reticle on top of 2 thin posts. The FOV as you look through this scope is very clean, uncluttered and clear as a bell. The intensity of the arrow`s illumination can be adjusted for any low light situation as needed. The arrow either in illuminated red or amber cannot be lost on a dark colored target such as a caped buffalo, bison, black bear etc. regardless of the light. It is also important to understand that because of its illuminated arrow and one`s ability to keep both eyes open, a moving target is much easier to put down; ie dangerous game??? You bet!!! Go to the Trijicon website, www.trijicon.com I believe and read that site. very interesting material and testimonials there....Durability is no problem for that scope!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 18:27
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Silver.................Although I have plenty of time to decide on a .375, I am favoring the Ruger 375 in the Alaskan version with its black Hogue stock and 20" barrel..........Big article on this rifle in the Dec. `07 "Guns Magazine" issue.  Made the front page too!!! Here are few reasons why I`m considering this rifle...............First! The Ruger .375 from the 20" barrel will duplicate and in some loadings exceed the ballistic performance of the more than proven .375 H&H from the longer barrel. The 375 Ruger case will hold 8 grains more water than the 375 H&H, which allows for more powder capacity..............Secondly! The Hogue over molded stock is impervious to any weather, gun oils, solvents, etc. You name it!!..............Thirdly! With the over molded stock, one need not worry about any wood stock splitting due to recoil should that occur.............Fourth! The over moulded stock is very grippy for the hands, whether in the heat with sweat, in the extremes of the cold or anything else in between!................Fifth! Ruger without a doubt, has one the strongest designs for a built-in scope base and ring mounts in the business.....................Sixth! Like my Ruger Frontier 300 WSM compact, the shorter barrel of the Alaskan .375 makes for easier carrying and faster target acquisition because the rifle`s OAL is only 40.5."  With my 6'3" in height, I can literally carry the Alaskan by its pistol grip, with my arms relaxed at my side, with the muzzle pointed to ground and not even come close to touching the ground!!! Try that with a full sized 24" or 26" tube!!!.................Seventh! I won`t need to worry about any scratches on the stock by leaning it against a tree, on some rocks or by accidentally dropping it. A real true rough it rifle!!!......................Eighth! The Ruger 3 position safety, I consider to be one of the best in the business......................Ninth! Available in the black matte ionized treated barrel for extreme weather conditions................She ain`t pretty but who cares!!! Not supposed to be! I look at function and durability!!! I`m not interested in taking furniture polish into the fields with the concern about  keeping my wood stock nice and pretty. And, I don`t want to be concerned having to be very ginger with a rifle in order to avoid stock scratching as I mosey through different terrains......................Although not quite ballistically as potent as the 375RUM, which is really not needed, I consider the Ruger Alaskan to be just as durable as the Remy XCR  with the additional advantage of being more compact!.........Put a Trijicon 1.5x4 on that Alaskan and what do ya got? One helluva quick acquisition DGR, moose rifle, big bear rifle, African plains rifle and any continent rifle!!!.................A CZ???  Nope!.... Besides! Everyone who has a big bore more than likely has a 375 H&H! I like to be different!!WinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 20:34
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Bricat...................I may have previously mentioned this on another posting. In case I didn`t, there is an article about the 3x9 Trijicon in the Oct. `07 issue of "American Rifleman." The two main points to consider with this scope are its illuminated reticle and its ability for the shooter to keep both eyes open while targeting!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2007 at 22:28
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Thanks Big squeeze and everyone else for the schooling on these smaller scopes and the Trijicons. God bless my optics hombres!Hug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2007 at 07:47
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Originally posted by bricat bricat wrote:

Thanks Big squeeze and everyone else for the schooling on these smaller scopes and the Trijicons. God bless my optics hombres!Hug


I've said this before, but it bares saying again........this site has the best, simplest, and least biased scope info of anywhere on the internet. I say this after haunting campfire - AR - HA - and quite a few smaller sites thru the years. You would think that a site sponsored by an optics retailer would be the last place to see this, but its the best by far. You can express your honest opinion here and not get ganged up on or belittled. A varied group of posters with valid and hands on opinions about optics without the clicks that dominate most others. Ilya is also here to validate and add his deep optics background to the mix. OK I'll get off the soapbox but its eye opening to scroll down and see at any given time how many guests are browsing this site. THERES A REASON!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2007 at 07:50
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