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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 13:59
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Ok, I've been reading and reading about scopes and I have ironed out some of what I want, and my needs.  I have a decent budget and would like to ask people with more experience than I have for help.

Use:  This will be used on a LaRue Tactical 18" 7.62 OBR for precision shooting at average distances of about 500yds, with some shooting at 1k.  The gun needs to be able to handle from 40yds to 1k, and should make it easy to shoot from 150-800.  I plan to take some precision rifle classes, compete in "sniper" style competitions (Like the Thunder Beast Challenge, and Tiger Valley team matches) as well has hunt out to about 300yds. 

Wants:  I want a FFP scope, with matching mil/mil adjustments.  TMR style reticle would be fine, but something else, like a HORUS type would work too but I'm not willing to pay much extra for that un-needed item.  Illumination is not necessary, but would be welcome.  (mainly for low light hunting of pigs, but not necessary)  Rugged, durable, simple for me to use.  (I'm a precision noob, and want to start well)

Magnification range should be at least to 10x, maybe 14x.  I am undecided if I would prefer a lower power scope, like a 2.5/3.5 on the low side with a 10x on the high side, or if I want a 4.5x on the low side with a higher range on the high side. 

My budget will not allow for top end glass from companies like S&B.  I just can't drop $2k-3k on an optic yet.  Someday I will, and my life will be easy.  Right now though, my budget is about $1100-1200 max.  I am fortunate enough to get a LE discount, so that will allow optics that are generally a little out of my budget to fit. 

I am considering the Leupold MK4 4.5-14x50mm M5 FFP TMR, the SWFA SS 5-20x50mm, Bushnell 3.5-21x50mm HDMR, and I've also been looking at used optics.  The gun will be new, and I think it would be cool to get a new optic for it as well.  If a Vortex 4.5-16x50 ffp Viper PST would work, that would save me some considerable money and put me on my way to a 3-gun optic that I need as well.  I have a LT111 Mount that this will go in. 

Help me out, the information I've found is making my head spin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 14:03
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For your described uses you'll have a VERY hard time beating the SS 5-20x50 HD model. It comes in either illuminated or non-illuminated so you could save a few bucks by going with the latter. And at $1400 (Illum) or $1200 (non) it's very close to your budget.
 
Scopes of equal optical quality will bust your budget by quite a bit.
 
I'm sure others will chime in, but honestly that's the direction i'd go. You're getting top notch glass and GREAT customer service and warranty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 14:06
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I think the PST would work fine.  I have one on my Blaser right now that I am putting through the ringger.  The glass is nowhere near that of the SWFA SS that I have but its definatly servicable.  I've shot out to 500 yds so far with it but nothing more, yet.  I would say the PST compares closely with the IORs i've seen, whick might be another option for you to also look at.   Wanting to shoot at that 40yds # has really got me worried about anything over about 3X, it would be hard to get on target at that distance with much more than that, at least quickly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 14:28
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If you can live with 5X on the low end here is my list of recommendations -
 #1 (will have the best glass of anything listed below)
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Illuminated Mil Quad SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQI
  • Patented First Focal Plane Illuminated Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,499.95 
Add SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories :



#2
Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - PST416F1M
  • Matte
  • EBR-1 Mil Reticle
  • 30mm
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
  • .10 Mil Adjustments
$899.95 
Add Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
 
#3 - Tie between these two
IOR 3-18x42 Tactical 35mm Rifle Scope MP-8 IOR 3-18x42 Tactical 35mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 301846
  • 4th Gen SH Edition
  • Matte
  • Modified MP-8 A5
  • 35mm
  • Side Focus
  • MIL/MIL
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
  • Free IOR 35mm Rings w/ Purchase
$1,529.95 
Add IOR 3-18x42 Tactical 35mm Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
&
Weaver 3-15x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope Weaver 3-15x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - WEA800363
  • Matte
  • Illuminated EMDR
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
$699.95 
Add Weaver 3-15x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 14:41
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Your list screams Weaver Tactical 3-15x50!  I would take a strong look at this scope if I were you.  It is solid in every category. 

I also have the SS 3-9x42 and if you think can get by with 9x it is a really nice scope. 

HTH,

Scot
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 17:12
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I was really thinking this up until I saw the price limit.
US Optics 1.8-10x44 SN-3 30mm Riflescope US Optics 1.8-10x44 SN-3 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - USOSN3I
  • Matte Black Type III hard Anodizing
  • Illuminated Mil-Scale GAP Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Low Profile - Rapid Focus Eyepiece
  • 11 Pos Rheostat (Red) Illumination
  • EREK 1/10 MIL Elevation Knob
  • US#3 M40 Style 1/10 MIL Windage Knob
  • ERGO Upgrade Parallax Control
$2,274.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 17:18
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Well the OBR is an awesome rifle congratulations on your rifle.  I guess one of my concerns with the scope choice is  size when we start talking higher magnification 50mm + objectives they start to get large.  Depending on how you will really use this rifle I tend to think that you could initially get away with using something like the 3-9x42 Super Sniper at least for a while and it is a great scope to switch of to another rifle or it could be traded in to SWFA toward another optic at a later time as could other scopes but these hold their value well. If you are running an A2 or PRS type stock its already a big set up so by all means consider the 5-20x50 SS.  The Leupolds are also a valid consideration at police price and really I dont think you would be going wrong with either but my first choice would be that U.S. Optics scope above.  
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/15/2012 at 17:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 18:09
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Now that I have more experience I would go with lower magnifications. I used to way over scope my rifles and that just caused me problems. Also lower mag scopes generally have a wider FOV making it easier to find your target at closer ranges. The SS 3-9 would be my choice. And if you are worried about 1000yd shots, a 9x is similar to no magnification at 111yds. How do you feel about looking at a target at 111yds with just your eyes?

Also if you are intending to shoot at 1000yds make sure your scope has enough internal adjustment to get you there. I know the SS scopes do, but I am not sure about the Weaver or the Vortex.

Since you are a LEO I would also consider the Leupold VXR 3-9.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-9x40-VX-R-Patrol-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P49445.aspx

I have been thinking about one myself and several here have reviewed this scope with favorable impressions of it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 21:18
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Maybe I'm over thinking it. But I feel that if I go with a lower power scope, that I would prefer a 2.5-10x. Not any real difference I'm sure, but maybe it just sounds better.

I don't want too much scope, but I would prefer more than a 3-9. Though I think the SS and VX-R scopes are the best on the market in their class. Just not sold on that yet. But I have not considered them either. Guess I need to look into those as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 00:57
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My USO 1.8-10x37 Review
 
http://sapper-dz.blogspot.com/2012/02/us-optics-18-10x37-ergo-sn3-slimline.html
 
I has settled on my 16 inch LR-308 and will stay there until USO releases the 1-8 models.  If you can find a used one you won't be dissappointed.  They can be found for 2k.
 
If thats out of your price range I would say go with the SS 3-9x42 FFP.  I have a few and have shot steel out to 750 many times.  Thats the limit of that scope though due to the fixed parallax ... everything is blured past that.  Yah the 5-20 is a great scope and Im very happy with mine.  Its a BIG scope though and not one I would use on a THunder Beast challenge.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 02:23
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If the 3-9 is limited to 750ish then it won't work. I WILL shoot at a grand. Might not be very often, but it will happen. I will also get some time at 880 every few months. And I need reliable hits to those ranges.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 05:54
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I'm looking at trying to get to a long-range shooting school myself if I ever run out of expensive kids, so I called Rifles Only to get their recommendation on some things, scopes among them.  The short list was S&B, Vortex Rzr, Nightforce, and the one that was specifically recommended at the top of the list was the Bushnell 3.5-21x50, mildot being good, GAP reticle being even better.  I was told this was a great all-around scope; "phenomenal" was a word that was used by them in the discussion.  They're not big on illum or high mag, saying they never use illum and liking 14-16x on the top end as giving enough fov to see bullet strikes and make corrections.  I have other uses for my scopes than they do, so I didn't follow their recommendations exactly, but at least I got some insight into some models they've had good experience with.  They don't seem to put nearly as much emphasis on glass as some, seeming to shrug when they talk about "the glass thing" as though it won't hurt anything but isn't high on the list of priorities.  While they didn't mention the SS specifically on the phone, it reviewed well on their site IIRC. 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 08:43
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Does anyone have any links to more information on that Weaver?  That scope looks awesome the more I look at it.  I've seen reviews where it was compared favorably to the SS and beat the Vortex PST 4.5-16 handedly in glass quality.  I just want to see how their warranty is, and how their mechanical ability is.  If it's good, that's the scope for me.  That would leave me enough left that I would be well on my way to a good 1-4x 3-gun scope.  And allow me to figure out what I really want in high end glass later on.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 09:26
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A few thoughts from an owner/previous owner of every scope mentioned on the thread (except the weaver):

1.  Non-illuminated FFP scopes can be tricky, especially at the low end of the mag range where reticles can be difficult to  see and use.
2.  Many coming into tactical shooting are buying too much magnification.  In my humblest of opinions, unless shooting from very stable, fixed positions - and at targets further than 1k out, I wouldn't go to or above 20X on the top end.  Lots of magnification presents challenges.  I have owned a few 20X or great and have never found one I enjoyed using.  Personal preference.
3.  In your budget and with you stated intentions, a 3-9 would be a good start.  If you are learning long range shooting, 800+ shots are much tougher than most will admit (because most haven't actually taken an 800+ yard shot, it is the internet, after all.)  
4.  Personally, I would avoid Leupold.  20 years ago their stuff was good in an industry that had few players.  Now, everyone has stepped up their game, but Leupold hasn't kept pace.  They are decent scopes, but there are far better scopes for the same or less money.
5 I have owned a few of the SS5-20s and liked them.  I sold them because A. I sold the rifles they were on, and B. I shoot better with 15X scopes than I do 20X.  It is a very good scope.  It has the same challenges every other 20X has, but it does have a nice magnification range.
6.  I think 5X is a little high for an optic that might be used to hunt.  Higher mag usually means more narrow field of view.

Lastly, if the $600 SS3-9 means more range time, do it, without question or hesitation.  The key to marksmanship is good basics (trigger control, breath control, natural point of aim, sight picture, bone-on-bone support) and practice, lots and lots of practice.  If saving on the scope means more time on the range, save on the scope.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 09:28
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On the Weaver, I haven't used one or shot one, but I hear good things.  The mag range is my favorite : 3-15X.

Every other scope mentioned thus far, I own/have owned and have used extensively, happy to help however I can.
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You are on the right track.  It has been highly rated by every legitimate reviewer I have confidence in and also by a number of users as well. 

I have owned a lot of Weavers over the years and they have all been well built with very repeatable turrets.  There have been a lot of changes with Weaver over the last few years but I haven't read anything to make me think that their turret assembly and durability has changed.  I owned a classic extreme, which is a newer scope line, and it was very well made. 

Some reading that may help: 

http://www.opticstalk.com/_topic29642.html

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2939518&page=1

http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 09:44
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Here are a few thoughts I have for your situation:

First, the Viper PSTs seem to have undergone some optical improvements recently, and the newest models perform very well optically.

They are a good option, especially with their growing tracking reputation.

Second, I haven't seen the 3-9 SS, but the feature list does seem to fit your needs well.

Third, the Sightron S3 listed above seems to hit all of your requirements, except ffp. Tracking of S3 scopes has been tested and retested. They are reliable. Glass is excellent. It has side focus. The MOA reticle is clean and usefull, and the subtensions can be used easily at 10x and doubled at 5x.

I will be scoping my 300 RUM soon and the S3, PST, and SS 5-20 were my finalists. I decided on the SS, but I think I would take the S3 for a rifle like yours.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 12:16
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

On the Weaver, I haven't used one or shot one, but I hear good things.  The mag range is my favorite : 3-15X.

Every other scope mentioned thus far, I own/have owned and have used extensively, happy to help however I can.


After reading about all of the scopes mentioned so far, the one stand out that fits everything I asked for is the Weaver.  The best thing is it's half the budget that I put out there.  All of the reviews are nice, though I can't find one in stock save for a major online retailer that is almost $100 more.  I'd buy from SWFA, but they are backordered and I need a optic by March 1st. 

I have one other place to call, then I'm just going to order from the major online catalog.

I think this gives me the right amount of scope for what my needs are, both on the top and on the bottom.  I've been shooting with a 3-9 most of my life, and a 4-12 too.  I don't have a problem with the power range of the 3-9, I just want to hit smaller targets farther away and would like a little more on the top.  I think the 15x the Weaver provides, at close to the SS 3-9 price, makes it worth the extra. 

Lots of good advise here.  I like this forum. 
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

A few thoughts from an owner/previous owner of every scope mentioned on the thread (except the weaver):

1.  Non-illuminated FFP scopes can be tricky, especially at the low end of the mag range where reticles can be difficult to  see and use.
2.  Many coming into tactical shooting are buying too much magnification.  In my humblest of opinions, unless shooting from very stable, fixed positions - and at targets further than 1k out, I wouldn't go to or above 20X on the top end.  Lots of magnification presents challenges.  I have owned a few 20X or great and have never found one I enjoyed using.  Personal preference.
3.  In your budget and with you stated intentions, a 3-9 would be a good start.  If you are learning long range shooting, 800+ shots are much tougher than most will admit (because most haven't actually taken an 800+ yard shot, it is the internet, after all.)  
4.  Personally, I would avoid Leupold.  20 years ago their stuff was good in an industry that had few players.  Now, everyone has stepped up their game, but Leupold hasn't kept pace.  They are decent scopes, but there are far better scopes for the same or less money.
5 I have owned a few of the SS5-20s and liked them.  I sold them because A. I sold the rifles they were on, and B. I shoot better with 15X scopes than I do 20X.  It is a very good scope.  It has the same challenges every other 20X has, but it does have a nice magnification range.
6.  I think 5X is a little high for an optic that might be used to hunt.  Higher mag usually means more narrow field of view.

Lastly, if the $600 SS3-9 means more range time, do it, without question or hesitation.  The key to marksmanship is good basics (trigger control, breath control, natural point of aim, sight picture, bone-on-bone support) and practice, lots and lots of practice.  If saving on the scope means more time on the range, save on the scope.  


This is the best advise I've seen on the net for new shooters and scopes.  I have a basic understanding of what I want, but you hit all the big points.  But the dollar amount on the scope doesn't change range time in this case.  But it will allow me to get a 3-gun scope.

I'm sold on the SS 1-4 for 3-gun, maybe the new 1-6 when it hits the shelves.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 12:45
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I have the 1-4SS on an SBR and couldn't be happier. I have yet to try a 1-6SS.


Edited because an iPhone on the AT&T network is only slightly better than 2 deaf mutes holding a can on opposite ends of a very long string.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - February/16/2012 at 15:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 18:36
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I dont think you will be happy trying to get to 1K with a Weaver it only has 50 moa of internal adjustment that is not enough.  The up side of the Super Sniper scopes - ALL of them is they have a huge amount of internal adjustment typically about 120 moa of adjustment.  I have no idea who told you you cant shoot 1000 with a 3-9 Here is a fixed 6x at 700.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/16/2012 at 19:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 18:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 19:04
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I think you would probably be well served by the 5-20 SS and if you are really going to work as long range most of the time that is the least expensive scope that you will likely be happy with most of the other stuff that is less money simply does not have enough internal adjustment to get past about 600 yds.
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2012 at 19:06
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