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HELP! Leupold vs SS Variable

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 12:03
drh2687 View Drop Down
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Hi all.  Lurking for a while with few posts, but I've come to the realization that I need the imput of those wiser than I on this decision.
 
I've got to get some glass for my recently-acquired 700P.  I've got it narrowed down to the SS Variable, the 3.5-10x Mark 4 M3, or the fixed 10x Mark 4 M3.  Fact is, I'm loosing my mind a little bit trying to decide. 
 
Not sure if I need variable power or not.  Seems like it'd just be one more thing to fiddle with that would slow me down in taking the shot.  If I got the variable Mk4, I'd likely just leave it on x10 so I could range with the mildots. 
 
The second issue is reticle.  The particular fixed 10x Mk4 I'm looking at has the Premier Reticles Gen II mildot in it.  I don't know much about this, only that it's reportedly better than the standard mildot reticle design.  To those who have used it, what are your thoughts?  I'm not sure I like the significantly larger bars on the outside of the crosshairs myself...
 
Next is adjustment knobs.  I like the idea of having mils on mils with the SS, but there is no BDC on the SS knobs.  I'd kind of like that functionality (even though I know the BDC won't be dead on all the time ammo/condition dependent).  The fixed Mk4 has ONLY BDC indicators - no regular hash marks/numbers for the MOA clicks.  Not sure what to think about that...  The 3.5-10x Mk4 has both...  BUT it's mil/moa.  ARGH!  Additionally, is the .1 mil adjustment on the SS too fine for a "tactical" (yeah, I said it) scope?  Versus the apparently "coarse" 1 moa clicks on the Mk4's?
 
Finally, price.  I've researched enough to know that Leupolds are pretty much the standard in this business.  New they seem to run right high (out of my price range anyway), but the used 10x I'm looking at (with the reticle) is considerably cheaper.  Read: less than $800.  The new 3.5-10x I found is around $900.  And of course the SS Var is the cheapest of all at $600.  Question is, what's the best value here?  How much do I gain for my extra money and is it worth it? 
 
I know you guys with your sagely knowledge must get tired of the "WhiCh ScOPe - Imma NooB" posts.  I thank you for your time reading my rather lengthy ramblings and for whatever insights you might have.  Next is rings and bases...  urgh.  But that's a question for another day.
 
PS: Since it's always asked in response to these posts - the purpose(s) of the weapon system will be largely punching paper at 100-500 and hitting man sized targets out to 1000 (when I can find a range that long).  In the future, I'd like it to have the capability to be used in tactical-scenario type competition.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 12:19
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Wait for the fixed SS 10x HD.  It should be the shiznit.  Initial reports are the glass is better than a fixed 10x Leupold and it has mil knobs.  Should be available soon.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 12:45
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I agree.... Wait for the new SS... If you simply can't wait, and I understand how that can be, the SS Variable is a great scope for the money. The glass is wonderful for the money spent. Excellent value for dollar spent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 14:51
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The 1 MOA clicks on the M3 perfectly fine for any military tactical application. Remember a 1 MOA clicks means you can be a *maximum* of .5 MOA off. On average your error will be .25 MOA. In practice I doubt a person would have the capacity to shoot more accurately than that in the field considering all the possible variables.

I generally suggest a fixed power for a field gun as they tend to be more rugged. The fixed 10 power SS is a good scope for the money and will get you learn a bit about long range shooting before sink too much money into a rig. The down side is the 'fine' click make it easy to get lost... but $300 vs $1500 for a Leu the larger clicks makes it worth giving the SS a go.


Edited by Graysteel - August/14/2009 at 14:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 17:54
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While the HD has promise, I personally, am not much for waitingLight It Up! The 10x S.S. is a great value, and retains a surprising amount of resale value. IMO is pick one up,shoot alot,if you want more later get it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 18:30
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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I have a MkIV M3 and can say that there is no comparison between the optics on the SS and teh Luppie.  The SS variable is hands down the winner.  And the SS actually tracks correctly.  With the MkIV series (3.5-10 and fixed 10x) you never touch the windage after you have it zeroed.  moa right might just me 1.7 moa right and 3/4 moa down.  Drives me nuts.
Wait on the fixed HD if you want parallax and different turrets.
 
Edited to add, just because the M3 knobs say you're set for 600 yards, that don't mean your ammunition is set for 600 yards to coincide with the predetermined elevation of the BDC.  You're going to have custom BDC's made or learn to go to your XX dialed range plus or minus X moa of adjustment to actual ballistic zero for the range being shot..


Edited by Mike McDonald - August/14/2009 at 18:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2009 at 21:25
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Never looked at anything with a SS, but I love my MK4.
The TMR reticle is nice. I started this winter on here asking questions and that is what I ended up with. It tracks great for me too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 00:16
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I'd go with the Variable SS.  For the money, it is hard to beat.  If money is no objec... it is still hard to beat.

Gen II MilDot is, indeed, a bit better than the standard MilDot in my opinon, but not enough so to warrant paying more for it.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 22:27
drh2687 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the insights all.  Sounds like-as usual-everybody is a fan of the SS value.  Not prepared to sit on my hands and wait for the SS HD to come out.  I hate to have the rifle sitting around that I can't put to use, so instant gratification is where it's at.  Surprised to hear Mike say that the SS was superior to the Mk4's...  first time I've heard that.  Anybody else have a similar experience?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2009 at 23:43
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Mr. McDonald was in charge of torqureing the S.S. variable, and is now doing it to the 10x HD, with an 8lbs .338 lapua w/o a muzzle brake (ouch!)!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2009 at 11:40
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Originally posted by drh2687 drh2687 wrote:

Thanks for the insights all.  Sounds like-as usual-everybody is a fan of the SS value.  Not prepared to sit on my hands and wait for the SS HD to come out.  I hate to have the rifle sitting around that I can't put to use, so instant gratification is where it's at.  Surprised to hear Mike say that the SS was superior to the Mk4's...  first time I've heard that.  Anybody else have a similar experience?
Just about everyone that has done that comparison. Other than the die hard "Leupold or nothing crowd." Honestly, the only thing Leo has on the SS is the choice of reticles, and turrets can be changed in the custom shop. As for the warranty, SWFA is as good, and dealing with Chris and SWFA is a pure pleasure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2009 at 19:51
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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I have a little insight into this having had all of the above except the new soon (read withing a few days) to be released  Fixed 10x HD with adjustable parallax (lucky Mike).
First the M3 knob is not real popular with most guys who buy them because the clicks are
 1 moa per click which means that at 600 yds each click moves it 6 inches. It's tough to be really precise with that coarse of an adjustment. The benefit of the M3 is you do not get lost in the dial when shooting various distances under extreme pressure.  It is a battle optic tough as nails and quite useful. The M1 target knobs are 1/4moa per click so at 600 yds that will be 1.5 inches per click.   Point of interest :  Do not mount an M3 scope on anything but a flat base (Period) as a plus 20 moa base will put you bottomed out and 20 inches  high at 100 yds.  I like Leupolds and have owned the 10xM3 which I traded for an M1 8.5-25x50with illumination at SWFA (hind sight being 20-20 I should have gotten the 6.5-20x50). I also have a 3.5-10x40 FFP M1 that I got from SWFA (I like this scope). Note how over time I went from M3 to M1.  I have owned three of the fixed power Super Snipers a 20x and two 10x one with side focus one with rear focus. I still have the side focus model 10x. I recently got a Super Sniper 3-9x42 FFP  1/10 Mil (I like this scope BETTER) upon taking it to the range with my son his comments were -- Why arent all of our scopes like this 3-9x42 mil dot 1/10 mil clicks.
So I have bought a second Super Sniper  3-9x42 FFP 1/10 Mil.    When I say select either the Super Sniper 3-9x42 or wait and select the Super Sniper Fixed 10x HD with adjustable parallax  you can consider it an educated opinion.
 
What you will find once you are working with these tactical scopes is that you are looking for a number on the dial that corresponds with the range you wish to shoot.  It's like the dial on the oven -   want biscuits dial it to 350 and you know what you will get.  That holds   true with any tactical knobs  1/4 moa or 1moa or Mil  same same (knowing what you will get requires practice).  But where MIL MIL makes sense that MOA becomes confusing is that MIL MIL is simple to use.  Shoot a hole in the hundred yard target use your mil dot reticle to measure how many mils you need to move to get to the center  and dial in the number of mils you just measured without any conversion table  or math.  Same Same at 600 yds.  With MOA based turrets and a Mil Dot reticle at 600 you are going  ---  OK  I'm   8 inches right and 5 inchs high now how many 1/4 moa clicks is that.   There are other companies who make MOA based reticles to go with MOA based turrets but even those companies are starting to offer MIL MIL -- why - because it works and you dont have to be a math whiz to make it work.  
Here spend an extra $30 bucks on one
Mil-Dot Master Mil-Dot Master
Stock # - MD1
  • Estimating Target Size
  • Determining Range to Target
  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
  • Correcting for Uphill/Downhill
  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
$29.95 
Add Mil-Dot Master to Cart 
of these - you will be glad you did.
 Want custom engraved target knobs :  http://www.kentonindustries.com/ 
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/16/2009 at 20:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2009 at 20:16
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Zeiss 3-12x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight Zeiss 3-12x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight
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  • 34mm
  • Target Knobs
  • Side Focus
  • 0.1 MRAD
$3,209.95 
Add Zeiss 3-12x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight to Cart
Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 Police Marksman LP 34mm Riflescope Illuminated P4 Mil-Dot Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 Police Marksman LP 34mm Riflescope
Stock # - 944P4LCM
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  • 34mm
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The spendy stuff comes Mil Mil too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2009 at 00:39
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I am seriously considering the SS 3x9 on a DPMS LR-308T with the S.S.A.L.T mount.  Any thought, opinions?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2009 at 01:31
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Nice scope. The mount should work but you may also want to look at these to see what is right for your needs. 
GG&G AR15/M16 Accessory GG&G AR15/M16 Accessory
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  • AC-30 Accucam Quick Detach Mounting Base with 30mm Integral Rings
$209.95 
Add GG&G AR15/M16 Accessory to Cart 
Badger Ordnance Maximized Scope 30mm Rings
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Matte, Ultra High, (1.4), Max-Alloy
$167.95 
Add Badger Ordnance Maximized Scope 30mm Rings to Cart 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2009 at 09:09
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Originally posted by SSCamaro99_3 SSCamaro99_3 wrote:

I am seriously considering the SS 3x9 on a DPMS LR-308T with the S.S.A.L.T mount.  Any thought, opinions?



The 3-9SS is a great scope, it would be a nice fit for your .308.

The mount will work, but getting the right height can be tricky, it's kinda "trial and error" or see what others have done on the same rifle.  I don't own an LR but a few around here do, post a question in the "mounts" section for those with experience with that rifle.

It should work fine, but I'd ask there on the mounts.  The scope, you'll like it!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2009 at 19:09
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Thanks, much appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 18:44
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

 Want custom engraved target knobs :  http://www.kentonindustries.com/ 
 


BRILLIANT!!!!

Will the Tasco Super Sniper speed dial knobs fit on the SWFA SS Variable?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 16:05
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The knobs for the 10X are different from the knobs on the 3-9.  Whether Kenton has knobs yet for the 3-90, you'll need to ask them that.

I can say that the 3-9 is a great scope, and I have used (and really like) Kenton knobs.

I too am anxious to see the new 10X HD.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2009 at 20:36
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Go to the 10X HD thread. 
 
It shows some great pictures of what you see when looking through the new 10X HD as well as, the originals including the 3x9... I really dont think you can go wrong with any of them.
Good Luck!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2009 at 11:26
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No question. The 3-9 Super Sniper is better value.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2009 at 16:33
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I don't know exactly what kinda rifle your building. But I do have the tasco SS 10x42m. It is a great scope. Now down to biss. The leupold 3.5-10x40 1st focal plane scope is good but!! If you put it on 10 power the cross hairs and the mill dots are pretty big and blocks some field of view. It has 90 moas of adjustment. And 1/4 moas of adjustmint. My tasco has 142 moas adjustmint and it is also 1/4 moas of adjustmint. I can focus on my front door knob of my house at midnight with no lite what so ever from 10ft away. That's good enough for me. Now in the daylight I took a pic from a calender of a deer and kept walkin back from it untill 1.5 mill dots of my scope was used. That duplated a 1000yrd shot of a deer. I could not shoot it in the eye but easaly do a shoulder or neck shot. The addvantage of the new ss varriable is that it has 1/3 moas addjustmint. That means if you put on bdc turret you can reach just over 1000yrds with a 7mag insted of 700yrds with one revolution. That's sweet. Now about a scope you didn't mention. The leatherwoods. I'm lookin at the 4-16x50 hi-lux uni-dial. Mil dot 1/2 moas adjustmint. It should take me out to 1200yrds with one revolution. And it's only $300 from competitor. Ask for the one with the 30mm tube and not the 1" tube. I hope this helps. The leupold is a good scope but the tasco and leatherwood would save alot of money and do just fine.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - September/07/2009 at 01:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2009 at 17:02
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The new SS variable actually has mil adjustments, while yes they are about 1/3 MOA they are not MOAs they are 1/10 mil.

Also the quality of Leatherwood scopes is debatable.  I have heard a lot more bad about those scopes than good. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2009 at 17:15
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I agree. I don't know much about the leatherwoods. But they have been makin rifle scopes for 100 yrs. I just found that out today. I didn't know they been out that long. I am thankin about gettin one just to test it but only because of the 1/2 moa's. I'm also lookin at the ttc turrets and tryin to find out how hard it is to put the yardage on there for 2 revolutions and not just one. I don't want the turret to look to busy. It needs to be read fast. If it's easy to read then I will just get another tasco ss 10-42m. Cause I really like it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2009 at 17:43
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Man I wish I had $3000 to spend on just a scope. That thang is sweet!! I just have a rem 260 shootin the 130grn nosler custom. I addjusted the triger down to 2lbs myself. My acuracy improved. Then I glass bedded and free flotted it myself too. And that helped. Now I have a limb saver anti muzle jumper on the berrel. Or what ever the hell it's called. Lol. It works anyway. I can shoot a 16" baloon at 1000yrds with factory ammo. The nosler bullets I use very about 10 - 15 ft per second. Not great but ok I guess. I want to put on a 26" med hvy berrel with a 1 and 8 twist. From what I have read the 6.5 likes that. And not the factory 1@ 10 from Remington. I can't wait for HSM to come out with the 130grn burger vld's for my 260. I really want to try them. Because of the bc of those my little 260 will still have enough to drop a dear at 1000yrds. But I will have to kill some 10" - 12" balloons first out in the field befor I try anythang like that on game.
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