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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 14:00
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i want to buy a low power scope (1.5-6x) but couldn't make  the decision.  can someone tell me what is the different between burris black diamond and euro diamond?  i read  that no one has had the xtr model yet, how is that compare to the other 2 scopes? another choice is the nikon monarch gold, any experience on it? as you can see all those has objective lens of 40mm or larger, the leupold has 20mm only, any advantage of the bigger lens? any other suggestions? thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 14:59
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The Leupold is used a lot on dangerous game rifles and is the only variable lots of custom makers will put on anything larger than 375 H&H.  I've never heard of the 20mm objective being a problem in those circumstances, but the scopes you mention with 40mm objectives would have to transmit more light, considering it's about 4 times larger.  I've bought a couple of 1.5 - 6X scopes and always used them on the higher powers, so I decided 2.5-8 or 3-9 is a lot more useful.



Edited by mwyates
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 17:19
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Leupold also makes a 30mm tube version that is a big improvement over the 25mm/inch tube.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 18:34
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thanks for the info. the area that i hunt will be  100 yards or so, no need for a high power scope. what model is the leupold has 30mm tube? i check the cabelas catalog and see only the high power vxiii and the lps do. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 20:30
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Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

 

Leupold also makes a 30mm tube version that is a big improvement over the 25mm/inch tube.

 

In what way?

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 08:54
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 The 30mm tube is part of the Mark 4 "tactical" series.  I had them side by side at the gun show a couple of months ago.  The 30mm gives a wider field of view.  The glass seems crisper, but that may just be because the larger tube is letting in more light.  The 30mm seems a lot better for working the brush on an overcast day.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 08:59
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The Bushnell 4200 also merits mention.  On higher power I liked it over the Leupold, on lower power I liked the 30mm Leupold.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 17:47
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Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

 

 The 30mm tube is part of the Mark 4 "tactical" series.  I had them side by side at the gun show a couple of months ago.  The 30mm gives a wider field of view.  The glass seems crisper, but that may just be because the larger tube is letting in more light.  The 30mm seems a lot better for working the brush on an overcast day.  

 

If everything else is equal, there is no real difference between a 1" and 30mm tube.  There is a difference (in favor of the 30mm) as far as long range adjustments.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2005 at 21:43
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Originally posted by ranburr ranburr wrote:

Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

 

 The 30mm tube is part of the Mark 4 "tactical" series.  I had them side by side at the gun show a couple of months ago.  The 30mm gives a wider field of view.  The glass seems crisper, but that may just be because the larger tube is letting in more light.  The 30mm seems a lot better for working the brush on an overcast day.  

 

If everything else is equal, there is no real difference between a 1" and 30mm tube.  There is a difference (in favor of the 30mm) as far as long range adjustments.

 

ranburr

 

In some of the scrub, "spill" ground, and creek beds  I've seen over the years, fifty feet is a long shot in some of these places the noticably wider field of view allows for a much faster shot.  That means the differance between fresh meat and cussin'.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2005 at 11:42
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OK.  Before we go into another 30mm and 1" debate look throught these threads.

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2169&PN= 1

In a nutshell: 30mm tube does NOT let in any more light than 1".  With the same optical quality and objective size, 30mm and 1" scopes are identical optically.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 02:20
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I am not going to state something about 30 mm tubes being better, brighter or ballistically superior to 1 " tubes, but I do think that it makes them a bit beefier and easier to see through, simply because they are bigger.

          I am not looking for an argument.  My feelings and that is about the extent of it.

                  SEB

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 12:52
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Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "easier to see through"?

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 13:51
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Well Ilya,

        I am not being scientific here, but it just seems to me that the 30 mm tube has a bigger sweet spot.  That area in the middle of the scope that is not too particular about where you hold your head, so that you can see the whole reticle and surrounding edge of the scope.  It just seems that way to me.  Of course, and I never tried to quantify it before now, this may be due to the 30 mm scope being so much more advanced than the 1 inch tubes I have looked through.  I mean far and away the 30 mm tube is on a scope that retails for close to $800.00, while the 1" variety, were on scopes that were approximately $300.00 less.  Maybe that is why they are so forgiving in the placement of the eye.  I am not sure.

           Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 15:12
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I think you hit the nail on the head.  The scopes you are comparing are built differently.  What you are referring to is usually called non-critical eye relief and/or non-critical eye position.  That has nothing to do with the tube diameter, but everything to do with the optical system.  Also, typically lower magnification scopes are much better with this (one of the biggest reasons why I tend to lean toward lower magnification and fixed magnification scopes).

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 20:28
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In the two scope being compared, the tube size is controling the size of the objective lense. So if the there is not a differance between in light transmission between two tube sizes is there a differance between two objective lense size?  One would hope that for the price differance there is also an improvement in lenses and prisms.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 20:45
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Which two scopes are you comparing?

Light transmission is defined as the ratio between how much light gets out of the scope and how much light gets into the scope.  That ratio is independent of the size of the objective lens.  The  total amount of light that gets to the eye depends on light transmission (although optical resolution is often more important), objective lens size and magnification.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 22:28
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   Ilya,      & nbsp;

             The two scopes were a Leupold Vari X III in a 4.5- 14 X 40mm, compared to a Burris 4-16X50mm Black Diamond.  The Black Diamond has the ballistic mil dot system in it, but is still more forgiving with head placement than the Leupold which only has the 1 inch tube.  I like them both, and will keep them both.

             But if i were to upgrade to another scope, I might be leaning towards the Leupold in the 30 mm tube config, however I would have to look through it first to see if it is just as forgiving with it's sweet spot.  I hope that this makes sense.   I recently sold a gun and actually got $100.00 more than I paid for it.  It was on a 7 mm WSM from Winchester M70 Featherweight. 

              The guy who did not want the scope wanted to put a Nikon on it.  No harm by me, as I still have a sweet scope to outfit a CZ 527 in .223 Remington, with it.  I got some rings separately for this particular gun that are pretty funky.  That is to say that if placed on the square bridge of the receiver the way they are supposed to fit, then the scope tilts down towards the barrel and is not fitting correctly. 

               Anyone have any idea of a good set of rings I could use for this particular rifle?   The ones that I bought with the problems are Millets, and I will be returning them shortly.  I was leaning towards a set of Burris rings with the positive alignment plastic rings within the main rings.  Any thoughts?

                Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 22:32
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If you need to get your money out of a gun, then sell it to the Amish, as they cannot buy guns as easily as the rest of us.  They cannot get a driver's license, and will not get a picture ID, so they are relegated to purchasing guns from auctions or private parties, because of the NCIS checks.  It is not illegal as long as you are not constantly buying guns and selling them to others, for that you do need an FFL license.

           Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2006 at 22:51
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I think that Black Diamond is a better scope than VX-III, but that has nothing to do with tube diameter.  These are different scopes from different makers.  Before you go ahead and buy a 30mm VX-III, you may want to look at it first.  To the best of my knowledge it has the same optical design as a comparable 1 inch VX-III.  The mechanics are a little different and a 30mm has more adjustment range.  Also, if you like Black Diamond, you should also consider 1" Burris Signature Select scopes which have more or less the same glass for less money.

As for CZ 527, I am not a big fan of Millet rings.  I have used both Burris and CZ rings on CZ rifles and they worked just fine.  I do not think Burris Signature rings (with inserts) are available for CZ unless you first get a CZ to Weaver adapter (if such a thing exists).  I think the best rings avialable for CZ rifles are Warne.  They have a huge assortment or 1" and 30mm rings in both permanent and QD configurations.

Ilya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2006 at 22:27
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This is obviously my opinion but the Black Diamond glass is head & shoulders better than the glass Leupold is using in their VX-III scopes.  I have owned both of these scopes and I sold the Leupold after comparing the two over last year's deer season.  The clarity & image brightness in low light conditions separate the Black Diamond significantly over the VX-III.

Again, this is just my opinion but I arrived at this conclusion after testing side-by-side over the course of a deer season that runs from November to the end of January...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2006 at 02:44
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Wow that is certainly something that I never expected to see or hear about.  It is really something that I never even tried myself, though I own both Leupold and Burris Black Diamond.  How did you conduct those tests?  Was it based on the same time of day and that sort of thing?  Or was it simply clarity and resolution at morning and evening? 

        I may be trading some of mine here shortly.

             Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2006 at 21:22
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Originally posted by chasseur106 chasseur106 wrote:

Wow that is certainly something that I never expected to see or hear about.  It is really something that I never even tried myself, though I own both Leupold and Burris Black Diamond.  How did you conduct those tests?  Was it based on the same time of day and that sort of thing?  Or was it simply clarity and resolution at morning and evening? 

        I may be trading some of mine here shortly.

             Scott

 

I hunt in SW Alabama on about 900 acres, of which 95% is hardwoods with about a dozen greenfields planted throughout the property.  We probably have 15 ladder stands (about 15' high) spread through the woods & overlooking old logging roads. I usually hunt from 2pm-"too dark to see" evening but get in the woods 2-3 mornings each season.  I say this to let you know that I'm not hunting over wide open plains with 250+yard shots.  Most of my shots are up to 125yds with many under 80yds.

The Burris sits atop an A-Bolt in .260 Remington while the Leupold sat on a SIG SHR970 in 30/06.  Neither rifle has a specific setup (long range vs. short, etc.) but both were/are "zeroed" @ 100yds.  Both scopes have seen many different hunting situations (cold, rain, bright sun, etc.) & performed well from a construction standpoint.  Where the Burris won was truly with the higher quality glass.  On more that 3 occasions, both rifles went with me to a 2-man shooting "house" (guy I was sharing it with had a problem with his rifle so he borrowed mine).  Were were hunting for a specific 10 point buck (that never showed!) so we passed up all other deer that visited this stand.   We passed the rifles back & forth in the shooting house, comparing the images produced by two scopes of doe feeding in the field.  At 5:15pm the deer were no longer visable to the Leupold while we got to 5:31 with the Burris before the deer became shadows.  We could also see specific physical features of the deer in much greater detail with the Burris.  If I remember correctly, we set both scopes on 6x magnification.  TO MY EYES (and Lee's, my friend in the shooting house) the Burris Black Diamond "won" the side-by-side comparision(s) & to be honest the BD was a LOT better than the Leupold.

These are merely the results of an unscientific test.  Hopefully it will help others that might be considering these two optics. 

As a side note, I don't have a bias again Leupold as I think they make a good product but this time around their product came in 2nd.



Edited by ceylonc
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2006 at 00:20
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Hey Ceylonc,

      I read your post and was very interested, but have to make sure you were talking about a Leupold Vari X III or VX III, right?  But I am really glad that I bought my Burris when I did.  The only drawback to it, is the size of it.  It is so stinking big.  Which means that I am going to try one of Burris's Eurodiamonds before I go back to the Big Black Diamond again.  I think a 3-12X44mm illuminated reticle is what I want, for my .25-06.  I have it set up with handloaded 117 grain SST's for the bigger critters and 85 grain ballistic tips for the smaller fox, and coyote type critters, and I want to be able to use the same scope for everything.  Sounds about right, doesn't it?

          Scott

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