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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 09:32
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/29/2011
Location: MS
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Okay experts.  I just registered to join this forum looking for some good expert/practical advice.

This past year, at the age of 35, I began entered the world of hunting.  I started with Duck hunting, migrated to Geese, and decided that next year I want to begin white tail deer.   I have never hunted/shot a white tailed deer and until last week had never fired a rifle.  My point in all of this is to convey that I am a completely ignorant novice when it comes to the topic of optics etc...

I have researched rifles and settled on purchasing a Browning X-bolt .270 caliber rifle.  It seems like a quality firearm and most importantly it seemed to fit me comfortably.  Now, I need to purchase a scope to compliment my weapon.  Here is my situation.  I have been encouraged to purchase a Schmidt and Bender LM/A8 2-10x56 scope.  It seems a little pricey at $1700 but this is what the dealer and others have suggested.  

It appears to be a quality scope, and I usually seek out high end merchandise, but have my doubts if this is what I need.  I will be hunting in central MS and really don't see myself in a situation where 200+ yard shots will be normal.  Money really isn't an issue, I can swing $1700 for a scope, but the question is should I.  Is it worth having, or am I simply buying a high performance sports car that will only be driven in a 35 MPH speed zone?

So, I guess my questions are:

1) Is the Schmidt and Bender LM/A8 2-10x56 a good scope at $1700?
2) Is it a good scope for someone who probably doesn't have enough knowledge to know if he is looking through a scope or a set of binoculars?
3) Given what I have typed, are there any other recommendations to consider should he feel that this Schmidt and Bender is not a good scope for someone of my limited knowledge?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 09:44
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Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
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S&B is a good scope company but as a novice I think you'd be better off steping down and using the extra money in getting more range time with ammo or even getting a 22lr with a scope to learn the fundementals with.   that said this would be a great scope that would do all you'd need to do in the beginning stages of your hunting experience
Swarovski 3-10x42 Z3 Riflescope Plex Swarovski 3-10x42 Z3 Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59011
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$838.95 
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There are some others too that would fit well IMO but you've described the S&B pretty good IMO "buying a high performance sports car that will only be driven in a 35 MPH speed zone"  Until you get some experience you'd never really experience or need it at this time.   But then again I do advocate getting the best glass you can afford but in this case I think the benefit of saving and spending on ammo or a trainer woudl be better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 10:41
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Optics Journeyman
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To be perfectly frank firearms are much like cars, golf equipment, boats , or anything else. There are all levels of price points and the law of diminishing return is present after a certain price point is reached. The extra value from that point is much in the individual that is making the purchase. Let me be clear we are talking hunting scopes here. If you are joining the national long range rifle team where 1 X-ring vs a 9 ring can decide the match then for target scopes the point of diminishing return is probably at a higher level.
You have made a excellent choice in your rifle as the A bolt is a great gun and 270 a excellent medium game round. To me a good choice for what you say you are going to use it for would be a good quality 3-9 variable in a medium priced scope. Good choices would be the Zeiss Conquest line, Leupold VX-III, Burris Signature, Vortex Viper, Sightorn Big Sky or Nikon Monarch. All of these scopes cost in the $400-$600 range are quality items and should easily collect any Buck you are likely to ever come across. I personally wdon't like really big scopes and look for a good 1" scope that weighs about 12-14oz in this catagory and reticule is a matter of personal preference. I like a plain or semi heavy duplex. That would be my advice, now if you like to have the Cadillac of the hunt and like a bunch of bells and whistles then as you indicate you can afford it why not. But for me I would save the $1000 on the S&B and buy myself a nice 22LR bolt gun and a scope and practice practice practice. Oh and a nice set of binoculars would be a good use of your savings.

Edited by powderburn - March/29/2011 at 10:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 10:52
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/29/2011
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I appreciate the comments.  I have another question.  

I understand that the smaller number indicates the lower level of magnification (1.5x means the object is magnified 1 1/2 times its normal size).  Is there much of a difference in field of view between 1.5 and 4?  In practical terms.  If I get a scope that has a lower end magnification of 4x then will I have difficulty seeing are getting an exceptable field of view of a target that is 50- 100 yards away?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 10:59
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Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
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A little test is that on 10X a target 100yds away will appear similar to a target 10yds away with your naked eye,  can you see it?Wink

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 11:11
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You are correct in your assumption. a 1.5 scope will probably have something like 60-70 feet of field vs 25-30 for for a 4x. For this reason I don't like high power scopes like a 6.5x18 etc for a deer rifle. One thing I have found if you go much below 2x is often you can see a shadow caused by the end of the barrel or front sight appearing in your scope. It really doesn't bother anything but I bugs me and it's this reason that I usually never go below a 2x in a scope. From a practical standpoint I have never had a problem easily picking up a deer in a 4x or even 6x scope. I never shoot at running deer anymore as I have found this to be a low % shot and I hate tracking down wounded deer. I don't mind killing game but I prefer it when they don't hear the one that gets them. Anyway that is why the 3x9 and the 2x7 class of scopes have been so popular for so long. They provide a good bottom end and yet can crank for any sane shot on th longer side. My deer rifles have either 3x9 or fixed 4x scopes on them and I have never needed more or less for that matter. As a matter of fact my variables are always turned down to the lowest power and I don't recall ever turning them up for a shot at game.

Edited by powderburn - March/29/2011 at 11:13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 11:49
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Tip Stick

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That Z3 would be a great optic for that rifle.  You are getting "high end" class along with easy use.  I am not familar with the S&B other than I know they make nice stuff.  Another option at about half the price would be the Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40.  I great scope in it's own right.  If you decided after a few years of using it, that you would benefit from a higher end scope - it would be easy to sell or move to a different rifle if you decide 1 isn't enough.
 
Good luck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 11:50
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bowsNbugs

Joined: March/10/2008
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Welcome Ster!  Excellent You have come to the right place for info...and for optic purchases. Now, you DO NOT need a $1700 S&B scope to shoot a deer! Don't get me wrong, S&B scopes are excellent (have one myself), but I feel you'd be better served with a good quality 3-9 X 40 or similar. Zeiss Conquest, Bushnell Elite, Sightron Big Sky, Minox, Trijicon, Leupold, etc. all make great options for you to research and consider. I'd be looking for a wide field of view, decent eye relief and good / great glass. The Swaro Z3 that SVT mentioned is an excellent choice also. You probably don't need anything with a huge bell or 30mm tube (too big, heavy and messes with the balance of the rifle). Heck, even a fixed power like a 4X can work fine. IOR / Valdata makes a neat little 4X32. As is evident, you have tons of choices. Tell your dealer no thanks...IMHO. Good luck with your choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 12:21
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Optics Journeyman
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You know another option you might explore, There is a nice looking 3-9x40 burris fullfield II on the sample list for $129. These are pretty decent scopes and would not be a bad choice if you never ended up replacing it. However you could buy that scope mount it up on your rifle and shoot it for a while until you gain some idea of what you like and what you don't like and then make your choice. Like I say they aren't bad scopes in their own right but if you do replaceit at a later time you will always have a nice spare/ backup or you could always sell it and get most of your $$ back. Either way you'll be shooting learning about scopes talking to people at the range , seeing what they have and what you like or don't like about their scopesm mounts etc. Just a thought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 12:25
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Optics GrassHopper
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All great responses.  I appreciate your input.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 12:54
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Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
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I think a 56mm objective is way to big for a deer hunting rifle.  Leave those for night hunting.  I would get something in a 42mm objective.  56mm would make you use high rings to get it mounted.  Which in turn makes it hard to get a good cheek weld on a hunting rifle.

The swaro Z3 listed above would be great or a Z6 in 1.7-10x42mm would also be a good choice. (although much more expensive)

Or just buy a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x42 for $400 and it will be all the scope you ever need for deer hunting.

Here is my Abolt.  It has a Swaro 1.7-10x42mm.  I was able to use low Talley mounts so it keeps it nice and low for a good cheek weld.  Nice think about the abolt is they have a real short bolt lift so you can get scope with large eye pieces and not have to worry about the bolt hitting them. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 12:58
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Superstool

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Originally posted by Ster Ster wrote:

I appreciate the comments.  I have another question.  

I understand that the smaller number indicates the lower level of magnification (1.5x means the object is magnified 1 1/2 times its normal size).  Is there much of a difference in field of view between 1.5 and 4?  In practical terms.  If I get a scope that has a lower end magnification of 4x then will I have difficulty seeing are getting an exceptable field of view of a target that is 50- 100 yards away?


There will be a huge difference if FOV from 1.5x to 4x.  Take the 3-10x Swaro z3.  The FOV on 3x is 33 feet at 100 yards.  ON the Z6 1.7-10x at 1.7x it has 75 feet FOV at 100 yards.  That is the reason I choice the Z6 over the Z3.  It cost a lot more, but for my type of hunting I hunt often in the thick oak and mahogany so 3x was sometimes to much mag.

I would not worry about seeing the end of your barrel either.  It is kind of an annoyance when you are just looking through your scope.  But when actually hunting with it and using that gun to shoot an animal, I promise you seeing the end of your barrel will be the last thing on your mind.  All your focus will be on getting the reticle on the animal and getting a clean shot.  You won't even notice the barrel.


Edited by supertool73 - March/29/2011 at 13:00
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 13:00
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Ster, I think you'll find many great choices and scopes in the $400-500 range and this is where I think most people would suggest you look. This is the most competitive range and this is where you'll find your best bang for your buck. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 14:18
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For a deer gun If you want very nice glass I would look at zeiss conquest, or the Swarovski z3. Make sure you buy quality mounts such as Talley one piece. 2 to 3 on the low end will give you very good fov, and 10 to 12 on the high end will give you very good range, for when you feel comfortable extending it out a bit. A 56 mm objective is much larger than I would like, for carrying a gun around in the bush. You have picked a great cal for a deer gun. I have a nikon monarch 2.5-10x42 on my 30-06, and feel it is a scope equal in clarity to many which are more expensive, and as I have found out by accident, it is as tough as nails.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2011 at 18:17
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I think that the 3-9x40 zeiss conquest would be just about perfect for your needs/wants at this time.
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