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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2008 at 21:22
41Chevy View Drop Down
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Hello

I just purchased a new DPMS LR308T. This is my first “black rifle” of any sort.

The 308 was perhaps a counter intuitive choice for a 16” barreled AR-style rifle, but I thought that if it ever came to actually needing to shoot at someone to stop them a 223 might not be exactly the weapon I would want to use. While the short barrel does not take full advantage of this particular cartridge, it will still reach out and touch someone with good accuracy.

My wish would be to find a sight that would take full advantage of the tactical nature of the rifle and still give reasonable range for the occasional coyote or groundhog.

My thoughts so far are:

1, http://www.eotech-inc.com/product.php?id=5&cat=1

nice for cqb, however I hope the rifle will never need to be used in this scenario

 

2, http://www.usaoptics.net/4xtac308.html

nice for hunting but not so great for home defense           

 

3, http://www.grsc.com/combatriflescope.php

nice price point and perhaps a reasonable compromise that needs further research

 

I do most of my hunting with a bow, in Ohio no rifles are allowed for deer anyway, so this is going to be used for varmint and home defense.

 

The Eotech claims to be good for about 300+ yds, and that seems plenty for where I live (central Ohio) and my intended use, I’m just not sure if it will let me really take advantage of the rifles capabilities. My eyes aren’t as good as they used to be… and with no magnification HMMMM.

 

I am also planning to get an AR-15 this summer (read before elections) that would be a longer barreled 223 version of some sort, perhaps a Bushmaster Varminter . I just hate the though of not being able to purchase these legally if wanted… so I’m getting mine now and let them come take them if “they” can find me.

 

Would it be be possible with say a GG&G mount (http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=56&parents=84,86) to be able to swap the Eotech and the I.O.R. from rifle to rifle and not have to re-zero either on either gun?

 

Any ideas or options would be appreciated

Thank you

rich

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 06:04
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Welcome to The OT.
 
Brother, I'm going to suggest you use a 12ga. shotgun with 00 buckshot for home defense. 
If you ever have to defend your life, home or loved ones, it will "probably" be at short distances, thus making the shotgun a lot better option.
This allows you a better (IMHO) HD weapon and lets you concentrate on getting an optic for the rifle that will serve you for varmints, coyotes and what not. That's what I do anyhow. 
Make sense?


Edited by cheaptrick - March/08/2008 at 06:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 07:15
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Cheaptrick has a good suggestion with the shotgun. The .308 Will have so much over penetration that it could be very dangerous for the rest of your family and neighbors with pass throughs. There is a website called "Box of Truth" that demonstrates the penetration of different weapons  calibers, and bullets in a multitude of media. It provides good information and demonstrates this in a very visual presentation.
 
Welcome to Optics talk glad to have yoy here.


Edited by 3_tens - March/08/2008 at 07:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 07:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 08:30
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It sounds like you want a tactical scope to do double duty. IOR and Leupold both have an extensive line up of short/medium range optics that would be a nice compliment to the DPMS.

Burris is coming on stronger with a line up that would work for both uses.
You have a lot of choices available.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 08:44
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yes, even a 20 ga would be better, the muzzle blast from a 16 inc 308 in close quarters will render every sense you have ineffective, unless you want to get a can on it. the better choices in optics for this gun are the 2.5x10 NF, the 1x4 NF, the lower variable IORs,the  1.5 x6 MK4 leo, or an ACOG. while the eo is nice it would severally penalize this weapon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 10:29
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Thanks for all of the help with the home defense stuff, however there shouldn’t be any concern unless you happen to be breaking into my house.

 

I have two 12 ga loaded with 00 for the first line of defense, one on each floor of the house in easy to access places that are out of sight of any visitors and up where no children can reach. I also keep my favorite 9mm next to the bed loaded with hollow points to limit any over penetration issues. Not sure exactly how many thousand rounds have been through it but I’m comfy with it and I hit what I shoot at. Also we are newly empty nesters so there are no kids at home to worry about being in the line of fire. I do really thank you for the advice, it is sound and appreciate the input!

 

That said, I was seeking some help finding a scope / sight that would let me take advantage of the rifle so it’s not sitting in the safe waiting for a shtf scenario, and ifthe stuff does fly then it would be great to have a sight that still allows engagement in cqb.

 

 I ran into hard times a few years back and sold most of my collection. I kept my first rifle a Weatherby chambered in 300win mag and still sporting the scope I put on it in 1972 a Leupold 3x9 gold ring. It goes out on the varmint hunts. I also have a nice and super accurate 17hmr. So the 308 looked like a good fit between the two and with so many factory loads to choose from how could it be a bad choice to help fill the void. While I was seeking a variety of cartridge sizes I also wanted to own a nice semi-auto carbine just in the off chance the ban is reinstated… 

 

Hope this helps with suggestions. Also trying to keep the price below $750.00

 

Thanks again

 

rich

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 10:42
tahqua View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 41Chevy 41Chevy wrote:

Hope this helps with suggestions. Also trying to keep the price below $750.00

 

Thanks again

 

rich

 
That pretty much leaves out the Leupold's and the IOR's.
Burris are good reliable scopes. I own several different models and would not hesitate to buy one of their tactical models.
If you are willing to look beyond tactical scopes your options increase dramatically. This also depends on your reticle choices.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 11:21
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Did I mention I can get a bit long winded…

 

Just occurred to me that most of my inability to decide on a sight is based on the complete lack of experience with shooting a rifle at something in close proximity.

 

If I am shooting at close things then I am using a handgun, whats the fun in shooing at close things with a rifle. I understand that when this is being tactic is being employed it usually isn’t fun, meaning LE / Military cqb.

 

Perhaps when the weather cheers up a bit I should take the 17 out and look at some targets up close. Is a 3x too much scope for very close quarters? 

 

I like the Burris scopes that have been mentioned. For dual purpose should I go with a :

New Burris 1-4x24 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm

Rather than something like:

New Burris 3-12x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm

 

I could possibly scrape a little more together for the sight :0 than what I said… just not really wanting too.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 11:25
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I.O.R. Valdada 4x24mm M1 Tactical Scope
Illuminated Reticle, Lifetime Warranty
.308 BDC Calibrated

this is the scope i gave the link to.
it can be had for about 450.00

will it work for cqb?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 11:39
tahqua View Drop Down
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I would take the 109'/100 yds FOV of the Burris 1-4 over the IOR 29'/100yds for close work.

There are a few guys here who have used the 4x24 IOR and like it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 14:31
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If you want a scope for close quarter stuff, I doubt you are going to want a scope that starts at 3x or a 4x fixed.  Too hard to get on target in a home.  I think you will really like the 1-4 Burris XTR.  They are a nice scope.  Good FOV at 1x and at 4x, you should have no problem shooting out ot 300 yards.  If I were you, I would look for a good 1-4 or 1.5-6 scope.  There are some 1.5-6 Kahles on the sample list you might consider looking at as well.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 16:51
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the use of magnification in close quarters does away with one of the biggest advantages, and that is keeping both eyes open-- if one eyeball is in normal and the other one is at 4x is extremely difficult to co-ordinate the two. when both eyes are open even in longer range shooting the unused eye will rarely try to co-ordinate the event. as the target gets closer the more the problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 15:47
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thanks for the pointers, very much appreciated...

looks like i will go for the Burris 1x4

Nightforce has a 1x4 for two time the money???

I'm sure i could scrape the dough together but is there really 2x the scope there for an old guy shooting at cans of crappy beer winging from strings?

Or should i put the money towards a nice trigger as the stock one from DPMS feels a bit harsh?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 16:44
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Looks to me like this reticle is for a 5.56      http://www.swfa.com/c-591-burris-xtreme-tactical-rifle-scopes.aspx

I'm using it on a 7.62 (308)

are there options i don't see to change the reticle

just want to be sure before i buy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 17:09
tahqua View Drop Down
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This is on Burris' new site, not sure if it's the same

 
 


Edited by tahqua - March/09/2008 at 17:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 18:01
41Chevy View Drop Down
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Thank you tahqua, that explains a lot.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 18:48
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Watch what reticel you get.  The ballistic mildot is for the 7.62.  They have a reticle for the 5.56 that is different.  I believe the 1-4 Burris is set up for the drop for the 5.56  You can still use that reticle for the 7.62, but you need to run the number to figure out the ranges and drops for the 7.62.
 
 
The XTR is a nice scope, but the reticle may not be what you want, but will be usable.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 19:03
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Here is the page that will explain the reticles.
 
 
Read the tech notes for the Ballistic Mildot.  Should explain the process for using the reticle with different guns.  Then apply that procedure to the 5.56 reticle to use it with the 7.62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:09
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Burris has delayed the date these are going to be available for purchase, drat...

Looks like at lease the end of April.

Any other ideas?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:16
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You could always go with the ACOG.  This would be the one to get.  http://www.swfa.com/pc-4337-225-trijicon-35x35-acog-rifle-scope.aspx

I have the IOR 4x24 on my AR and it works pretty good for CQB.  When you are doing real close work it is more about muscle memory anyway. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:16
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Millett DPMS perhaps, There are some Eotechs as well which is a CQB and can come with a 308 BDC reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:23
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the Eotech was my first thought but i was concerned about not having magnification.

Looks like a few add-ons and i could have magnification and night vision tooDevil
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:32
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Bad thing about he Eotech is your whole sight system now depends on batteries.  For a personal/home defense weapon that is a huge downfall in my book.  You will want to have co-witnessing sights if you go with the eotech.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:50
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On a rifle like that .308, I would prefer variable power.
Secondly, I wouldn't worry about batteries. They are compact and always easy to keep spares handy. The military seems to be getting by just fine with Aimpoints and they are battery powered. I have never had a worry with mine. You need to be careful about which unit you buy. Our troops deserve the best and if it is good enough for them, it is far good enough for me. Look at the Eotech, Aimpoint and Trijicon offerings for illumination. Also, don't discount Leupold and IOR, they are well proven, also.
I have always suggested that when using lithium batteries you have a back up very close by. These batteries have a very narrow window between near death and dead. Once they start to go you only have a few on off cycles before they are history.


Edited by tahqua - March/13/2008 at 17:52
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