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Helia S2 7 Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 08:15
ekpugh View Drop Down
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I purchased a Mannlicher Schonauer rifle with a claw mounted Helia s2 7 scope.  I sent the scope for service and was told the tube is bent and the scope irreparable.  I need to replace the scope with one that will fit the mounts.  The problem will be the front ring.  I need a scope with a front bell being 36mm.  The rear ring will mount on a one inch tube.  The front ring was measured at the shop doing the repair and I was told it measure 35.72mm but I assume it is 36mm.  It would not be necessary to replace with another Kahles scope because of the cost if I can find a modern scope that would fit my needs.

Any help would be appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 10:20
ekpugh View Drop Down
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I found this scope on ebay.  Unfortunately there are no specs for the front bell and the seller can not be contacted.  Does anyone know if the front bell spec would be 36mm?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kahles-Helia-4-S2-Wien-Rifle-Scope-Austria-Vintage-/171587353004?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 10:59
tahqua View Drop Down
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That ebay scope has a 26mm tube. Can you provide a picture of your scope and mount?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 11:56
ekpugh View Drop Down
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I know the size of the tube. My scope is with the repair service soon to be parted out. The spec I need is for the front bell which needs to be 36 mm
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 13:24
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I have a Kahles CL 2-7x36 with a one inch tube. I just put a caliper on the objective bell it is 42 mm OD.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 13:35
ekpugh View Drop Down
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A 36 mm objective is going to be to big for my rings.  I am thinking the objective on my old scope must have been 32 or 33 mm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2015 at 15:26
tahqua View Drop Down
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You said your rear ring is one inch. Are you looking at the 26mm for parts?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2015 at 13:05
Gerry Atric View Drop Down
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Please have a look here: 

http://www.kahles.at/fileadmin/kahles/englisch/pdf/Helia_Super_1966_e.pdf


Edit: A change of plans gave me the opportunity to get home and have a look at my Helia  and yes it´s definitely 36 mm OD at the objective.


Gerry Atric


Edited by Gerry Atric - January/04/2015 at 14:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2015 at 16:26
ekpugh View Drop Down
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Thank you. I did find the info you provided. I have purchased a 4x Helia with the correct size bell. I will miss my 2-7 and will be keeping an eye out for one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 11:42
ekpugh View Drop Down
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My Kahles 4 S2 arrived today.   I centered the optics using the method of holding it up to a mirror and adjusting windage and elevation until the image of reticles aligned.  The problem is that I used all of the windage to achieve this.  Also because the reticle is not permanently centered when holding the scope to look through it the vertical was way off center.  I then used the method of lock to lock on the adjustments and was able to perceive the vertical centered in the eye piece.

My question is ...is there a problem with the scope or the method I used.  Also there is not as much elevation adjustment in the scope as windage.  Is this normal. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 15:03
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ekpugh ekpugh wrote:

My Kahles 4 S2 arrived today.   I centered the optics using the method of holding it up to a mirror and adjusting windage and elevation until the image of reticles aligned.  The problem is that I used all of the windage to achieve this.  Also because the reticle is not permanently centered when holding the scope to look through it the vertical was way off center.  I then used the method of lock to lock on the adjustments and was able to perceive the vertical centered in the eye piece.

My question is ...is there a problem with the scope or the method I used.  Also there is not as much elevation adjustment in the scope as windage.  Is this normal. 


Just curious, but what did centering it accomplish?  When you mount it and sight it in, you will have to move the adjustments to get it zeroed.  I have never understood the point of this.  Is there a legitimate reason? 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 15:18
ekpugh View Drop Down
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I would say with a used scope you are taking out all the previous adjustments and starting from zero as if new from the factory.  I take information received from people that know more than me and go with it.  The scope is supposed to be optically centered when mounted.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 16:46
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Just seems weird to me to take that extra step  You will have to move the adjustments to get it sighted in regardless of where it is at new or used.  I just mount, bore site and go.  Just seems like a wasted time step to me. 

In my experience, taking a scope that has been mounted on a previous gun, if a similar mounting system is used, it is actually pretty close to on.  I have moved AR and bolt gun scopes around quite a bit and they are always really close gun to gun. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 17:16
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Going back to mechanical center is from the earlier days of scopes when the primary bases used were the windage adjustable mounts like the Redfield and Leupold. Back then more of the rifles were not factory drilled for a scope. Windage in the base corrected for out of alignment when drilled. You wanted to have the scope close to mechanical center of the scope before centering with the windage adjustments on the base. This way less internal adjustment is used in the scope . I never trusted the mirror method and always counted total clicks, then dialed back to center. Now days most rifles come factory drilled and are more consistent to the barrel for the most part. Also the mounting systems today have come a long way too.


Edited by 3_tens - January/14/2015 at 17:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2015 at 18:40
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That makes sense to me.  When sighting in using Luepold or Redfield bases I would always get the most out of the bases before making adjustments to the scope.  I have a Balvar 5 scope mounted with Buehler mounts with all windage and elevation in the base which made it interesting.
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