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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2009 at 21:05
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I seem to be struck by the sudden urge to load very heavy for caliber bullets. I don't know why.........I don't need them..........I just want to try. I'm loading a .300Wby, and possibly a .300 win., and both are 1 in 10" twist rates. I know I should be able to load about anything up to 220 grains, but has anyone tried the 240gr. Sierra matchkings? I don't know if they will stabilize, but if they will, I'd like to try them, just in case I feel the need to shoot something a LOOOOOONG way off. Wonder what kind of velocity I could expect out of a 26" barreled .300 wby?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2009 at 21:38
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according to the lilja web page, the 1:10 is what he recommends with for the 240gr .308 bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2009 at 23:49
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 There's not much out there with a higher B.C. - (.711 or so).
 Should outperform most anything else in the 30 caliber class and below in the wind at long range. Too much bullet for a .308  in my estimation, but should work fine in a hot .30 caliber Magnum of some sort, with a very slow propellant.
 
And this is where that 26-inch barrel will prove its' mettle...
 
Go for it!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 01:44
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I don't have the 26" barrel just yet............but it's coming! Don't want to spoil the surprise, but I'll put pics up when I get it put together. New rifles make me so happy!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 10:00
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Is this 240 grain bullet just for targets or can it be used on big game with good reliable results?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 15:27
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Originally posted by boliodogs boliodogs wrote:

Is this 240 grain bullet just for targets or can it be used on big game with good reliable results?
 
There's a lot of debate about using any Sierra Matchking target bullets for hunting, but the Sierra folks themselves don't recommend it. They aren't really designed for reliable expansion, and will often fragment violently when they do expand.
 There are better choices, and I think Woodliegh and perhaps others still make .30 caliber hunting bullets up to 250 grains. They are usually roundnose types, though, and don't run distance or buck the wind at long range like the Matchkings will.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 02:49
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Thanks RONK, it sounds like a 200 grain accubond might be better for long range hunting. Sierra does not recommend hunting with their target bullets but Berger does recommend some of their match bullets for big game. If anyone reading this has tried Berger bullets on big game I would like to here the results. Their  204 grain bullet loses velocity very slowly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 05:07
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Berger has a 210 hunting VLD - http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting%20Bullets.html - you might try. It has a G1 BC of .630. Bear in mind: more weight = more recoil but that high BC does mean much less drift.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 09:14
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I only use 200gr Sierra Gameking out of my 300H&H. I push it at 2950 ft per second. Out to 300yds it is deadly on all of our antelope. I have taken longer shots and it works just as well.  For hunting I stay inside 300yds if I can.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 09:50
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I have read a little about those bullets and a lot of the people who are shooting the 240s are getting 1-9" twist rate barrels to get them to shoot the best.

On the topic of SMKs and hunting, my buddy used the 175s a couple weeks ago for some antelope hunting.  He killed 3 of them with 3 shots.  One of them was over 400 yards.  He said they all went clean through, at least most of the bullet.  He found fragments of the jackets in the chest cavities of one of them.  So it sounds like they were fragmenting a lot and would probably not be a good choice on a tough animal, but seemed to work good for him on the antelope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 11:02
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jonoMT thanks. I got the bullet weight mixed up with the 204 grain Hornady A-max which also has a high b.c.. The Berger hunting bullets are the ones I would like to here feedbach on as far as results on big game goes. I am interested  in the 204 A-max for hunting as well but the jacket might be to thin for anything with some size. I am interested in results of any weight Berger hunting bullet on game. supertool73 thank you for the info. on the 175SMK. 8shots thanks for the info. on the gamekings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 11:19
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by boliodogs boliodogs wrote:

Is this 240 grain bullet just for targets or can it be used on big game with good reliable results?
 
There's a lot of debate about using any Sierra Matchking target bullets for hunting, but the Sierra folks themselves don't recommend it. They aren't really designed for reliable expansion, and will often fragment violently when they do expand.
 There are better choices, and I think Woodliegh and perhaps others still make .30 caliber hunting bullets up to 250 grains. They are usually roundnose types, though, and don't run distance or buck the wind at long range like the Matchkings will.
 
I experimented with this on a slightly lower scale. I was loading the 135 matchking for my 270 BAR just to see what I could get out of it since it had long proven to be above average in accuracy. It did cut MOA some giving me consistant .60 or better depending on me. I had been loading the 140 gameking and still am for that rifle.
I decided to see how it performed on deer. My first oppertunity was a nice 8pt. at 40yds. I didn't really want to start with a trophy but I didn't pack any of the 140's. I am always particular about shot placement and especially that day. He had left his bedding and crossed the road in a trot stopping at 40yds. to check his surroundings. He was quartering away perfectly and I aimed for his opposite shoulder low enough to cut the top of his heart.
The round flew and it was clear that the opposite shoulder was broke and he stumbled about 20yds and that was it. Trophy on the wall. Upon autopsy I found that the round did frag but the bulk of lead lodged in the left shoulder breaking the larger bone. The fragments shreaded the heart and lungs but didn't do much outer damage. If I recall the entry did not strike a rib so the bullet fragmented on soft tissue. I was pleased with this because I am a strong believer in the value of hydrolic shock. I took 4 other deer with this round the furtherest being 200yds. A doe neck shot where she droped with out question. I decided to go back to the 140 because for what I had gained in accuracy I didn't feel comfortable trading what Sierra had designed in their gameking. Back then I still had a lot to learn about BC and other ballistic factors.
You are looking at much heavier rounds and that should not be over looked. I believe that a 180+ bullet of any configuration is more that sufficiant for deer sized game (shot placement always being key) but the question you have to answer is, " is the accuracy I gain worth the trade of a round designed for what I want"?
Let us know what you decide.  Good luck!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 15:31
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I've yet to try the Bergers so this is only what I've read but I understand they are meant to fragment in the wound channel, making them highly lethal but also ruining more meat...at least that's my interpretation. I'd like to hear also what people's experience has been with them. I also considered A-Maxes but read recommendations against using them for hunting. Accubonds have performed well for me at 200-300 yards out of a .308 with 2650-2675 fps @ the muzzle. At those ranges they were still traveling 2200-2400 fps.

I've got to see how the Bergers work with my new rifle, which has a shorter throat. I'm still really interested in them (and also haven't been able to find any locally).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 15:39
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I have shot a deer with an Amax, it worked great.  Hornady says they are okay up to medium sized game.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 17:09
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supertool73, thanks, that is good new to me. I would love to hunt with Amax bullets because they are very accurate and they have a very high b.c.. This means they will shoot flatter, retain more energy, and buck the wind better. I hope I am not becoming a pest but was wondering about details of the deer you shot with the Amax bullet. which Amax bullet did you use and at what velocity? What was the range, the size of the deer and the penetration and expantion and weigh retention like? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:23
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I have used Berger VLD's quite a bit on big game. They act differenlty than any other expanding bullet on the market. Any other bullet starts to expand IMMEDIATELY on the tissue of the animal, contrary to popular belief. This is the reason that there's often so much meat damage around the entrance hole, even though the hole in the skin is usually small.
 
Berger VLD's, on the other hand, don't expand until they are 1-1/2" to 2" inside. The theory for this is that instead of being a real hollow-point (you can't even force a small sewing needle into the point) they have a thin point with air inside. This evidently takes a little time to collapse. In fact it is often hard to find the darn entrance hole, which is much less than caliber size.
 
After the point collapses the bullet expands violently. On a rib or shoulder hit on a deer-sized animal this is usually INSIDE the chest cavity. On a small animal, say 100-150 pounds, the bullet will probably exit (or at least some of it) and really wreck what's on the other side. If the animal is much bigger, say 300+ pounds, it may not exit even on a broadside rib shot, but the animal will be dead very quickly.
 
So meat damage depends very much on where the bullet exits and the size of the animal. But they are the quickest killing bullets with rib/lung shots I have ever seen. And there won't be much meat damage around the entrance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 21:03
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The Berger bullets sound very wicked. I wonder if the 210 grain could be used on fairly large animals with careful shot placement.
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I have seen on T.V. shows where they were used quite succesfully on elk, and bears out of a 7mm. Whether I trust them enough to use them on bears or not I don't know, but I'm pretty sure I would hunt anything in my state with them and not be scared. I'm guessing if you hit something where it should be hit with a high speed 210 gr. bullet ........it will go down. My fear of the Bergers is that you don't get the shot you want, and have to expect the bullet to penetrate an animal lenghtwise. I think you might be in a bad way.
I shot a 185 VLD into a paint can full of sand going 3050 fps, at 100yds yesterday. I was expecting to see a huge exit hole. I instead found no exit, and a very small bullet fragment was all I found inside.........but the middle of the can was all sorts of pushed out!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 21:49
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I haven't shot any game yet with Amax's (just started reloading), but my .300wsm will push a 178gr. through 1/2" mild steel plate at 250 yds.(m.v. 2950 fps). I hope that is some help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 22:33
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I see that Sierra says the 240 gr. requires a 1 in 9 twist barrel. I am starting to like the 208 gr. A-Max though. Hoping I could push one to 3000fps.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 22:54
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Originally posted by boliodogs boliodogs wrote:

supertool73, thanks, that is good new to me. I would love to hunt with Amax bullets because they are very accurate and they have a very high b.c.. This means they will shoot flatter, retain more energy, and buck the wind better. I hope I am not becoming a pest but was wondering about details of the deer you shot with the Amax bullet. which Amax bullet did you use and at what velocity? What was the range, the size of the deer and the penetration and expantion and weigh retention like? 


It was a 178 amax, about 200 yards velocity was around 2600 fps.  Shot him in the chest it when clean through making a nice exit hole really tearing up the heart.  He dropped pretty much right away, maybe 2 or 3 steps and he was down.  It was a 4x4 mule deer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2009 at 10:11
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Thank you for the details, supertool73. That sounds like a good deer bullet to me. Was 2600 fps. your muzzle velocity or the velocity of the bullet when it hit the deer? Thats the last question, I promise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2009 at 16:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2009 at 17:01
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At 200 yards it would have probably been closer to 2400 fps.  2600 at the muzzle or at least at 15 feet where my chrono was.  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 19:15
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most favor the 178 over the 208 for deer. it will drop deer like the hammer of Thor.
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