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H4350 vs IMR 4451

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 09:10
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Optics Jedi Knight
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Has anyone here tried the new Enduron line from IMR? The IMR4451 is stated to be temperature stable and a replacement for the elusive H4350. The IMR4451 is on the shelves in most shops around here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 09:26
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Optics Jedi Master
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Never, but if it mirrors H4350, it is worth a look!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 11:21
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I have thought about trying it, but every time I make up my mind I find a pound of 4350. And the fact that it's about 8 bucks more per pound has something to do with it as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 11:34
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Optics Jedi Knight
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At the shop here, it is only $3 more than the H4350 that disappeared 6 months ago. I picked up 2 lbs to try. Now to get time away to load it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 11:34
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Chief Sackscratch

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what are ya'll paying a pound and per 8 pound jug for powder now a days.   My last 8lb jug of varget and XBR was about $180, now its about $230 and its only been a about a year  individual pound bottles are almost $40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 11:37
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Optics Jedi Knight
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$26-28 a lb. Haven't seen anything but pistol or shotgun power in larger sizes for a while. the IMR 4451 was $32.28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2016 at 20:14
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Optics Apprentice
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One of my buddies has tried IMR 4451 with excellent results.  He is shooting a Tikka in 260 Remington he built.  He tied for first at the MOST series match at Big Piney in Missouri last week.  He's getting higher velocity, using a lower charge weight, with Berger hybrids. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2016 at 08:59
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I've always been a Hodgdon Extreme fan, in particular Varget and H4350.  This is worth reading IMO. 

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2016/06/19/powder-temp-stability-hodgdon-extreme-vs-imr-enduron/

http://gunsmagazine.com/cold-cold-to-hot-hot/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2016 at 11:20
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Good article.  I'm typically a Reloder 17 user for my 260 Rem and plan to use it for my 338-06 loads that I'm working up, but these are hunting rifles.  Drawback with Reloder is that its charge is typically heavier compared to comparable loads using Varget or H4350.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 07:36
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Optics GrassHopper
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Resurrecting an old post and perhaps you have already tried it or gotten the answers you were looking for. I bought in to the hype and told myself maybe I should get some to see if I could get down to a single powder for all three rifles. I was using Imr 4350 and H4381sc so 4451 seemed logical.

First off, no you can' just substitute for Imr 43450 and expect greatness-  which is sort of what I had read.  Once you test you can compare what works best in 4350 and get an idea for where to start with 4451.

Here is a recap of where I am with limited testing.

In my 6mm Rem I was able to find a load that beat my best 85hpbt and 100 Prohunter 4350 loads.

In my 270 -well it shoots just about everything form 130 (IMR4350) through 150 (H4381) abuot an inch.  So I decided on 140 Gamekings and found a load with 4451 that shot half the group size as before.


My third rifle is a 260 with a 1-10.   This is how life and my version of reloading ( or optics hunting or knife shopping or tires or...)  goes.  It is my favorite and shoots 120 Prohunters into a single hole with 4350. Hard not to use even though I prefer the 140 Gamekings which in the 260 are amazing on-game performers.    They shoot ok with 4381 but internet says the twist is too slow so who am I going to believe, the internet or my lying eyes? Answer- the internet.  Doh!   I only had a few bullets  left so didn't get to work up a valid ladder test yet.


The temperature insensitivity is a bonus I guess but in truth will never matter to me.  4451 looks and meters like 4350.  It doesn't flow like Ramshot Hunter but I didn't have much luck shooting Hunter in my rifles.

Bottom line- yes I think I will be able to use only 4451 for both 6mm bullets,  the single 270 bullet and both 260 bullets.  Accuracy actually improved in the 6mm and 270.  Jury is out on 260 but no reason to suspect 1"inch or less is out there.


In my 260 I messed up and loaded below minimum.  This one is tricky and typifies how life works in that my 120 Prohunter 4350 load is my most accurate of any.  I can't do better so I will see how close I can come.  Single hole groups are so alluring even though they mean little for my hunting.  I prefer the 140 grain Gameking as it is the absolute best performer on game - but my rifle has a slow twist and should not be able to shoot them well.  They shot fine but who am I going to believe, the internet or my lying eyes?  In any case I used 4381 for that load. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 10:23
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Superstool

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There is also Reloader 17.  It is right next to h4350 on the burn charts.  I have been using it in my 6.5 creed and it has worked well accuracy wise.  I have not got my chrono out yet so I am not sure velocity wise how it stacks up. 

I found 4 lbs of h4350 at a local shop a while back.  He said he got 100 lbs of it and I got the last 4 that day.  He said it was all gone in a week.  IT was a ridiculous amount of money though.  $32 a lb.  Not to long ago a lb of powder was around $17. 

Hopefully with Trump in office, the demand is going to lessen so prices can loosen up.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2017 at 10:39
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I've switched to RL-17 for my 6.5CM and never looked back. Works great for me, I was using it in my 308 too until I got a 8lb jug of 2000-MR.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2017 at 07:09
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May be late to answer, but I have tried the IMR 4955 and shoots sub MOA from my 300WSM using the 168 Bulldozer. Got over 3100 fps. Trying it in a 30-06.  I like the data they present on their temperature stability.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2017 at 22:42
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Optics Jedi Knight
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I have been waiting on an XP-100 in 6XC 8 twist.  It was set up to shoot the Berger 105 Hybrids. I have a few of the BD's to try too. Looking at 3 powders H-4350, Varget and the IMR 4451. The pistol was delivered Friday. My range is under 12' of flooded Fort Gibson lake at this time.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2017 at 17:34
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Sweet pistol. What action? Bolt handle looks like rem 600.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2017 at 06:52
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A follow up to my last post. Tried IMR 4955 in the 30-06. I think it is too slow burning for that caliber. H4350 worked a lot better. Got 182 fps better velocity and sub half inch three shot groups from my new Barrett Fieldcraft using 168 gr Bulldozers. Loads were lightly compressed. I should try the IMR 4451 since its burn rate is a little faster the H4350, so it could also work well in the '06.

Edited by nralifer - May/16/2017 at 07:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2017 at 05:22
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That is one interesting looking pistol. In 6mm, that barrel should be super stiff. Do faster burning powders give you better results than slower ones with a barrel of that length?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2017 at 07:50
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Optics Jedi Knight
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I am not that experienced with reloading for the pistol yet. Most reports are that a faster powder than normally used in rifles of the same caliber is better. 38 gr of H-4350 was recommended as a start on the XC.  loading .15 to .20 off the lands. Varget was also mentioned as a choice.
  When shooting the 6.5-284 loaded with 140gr SMK's, my best load is 59.6 gr of H-4350. Because of problems encountered with the McMillan stock being brittle and cracking, I have not had a chance to test the IMR-4451 yet. The brittle McMillan stock is the primary reason That the aluminum chassis was chosen for the 6-XC.
  From reading it seems that the seating depth is more critical when using solid copper bullets, like the Berger 105 Hybrids or the BD from Badlands than the SMK. I ordered a tap yesterday for making my own Modified cases, used to make and record seating depth test. I hate variables. Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2017 at 11:15
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What I do to determine the OAL for a given bullet and case combination that will place the bullet at the rifling lands is to take the neck sizing die and size only half the neck, then use the seating die to set the bullet obviously long, measure the OAL, chamber it and remeasure the OAL. It should be shorter than the first measurement and if so then that measurement is the OAL where the bullet shank contacts the lands. It works well with bolt actions. One can write the OAL on the brass and save it for future reference. If you like using a comparator like the Hornady comparator, measure the comparator length. With the loaded rounds then simply seat the bullet 0.005-0.030 inches deeper.
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