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Gun firing when I lock the bolt down

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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2013 at 10:53
You're very welcome, Gil.

This isn't a design problem with Remington triggers per se. This is an issue that can crop up with ALL enclosed trigger assemblies with side plates -- Remington, Timney, Rifle Basix, Shilen, Jewell, Sako / Tikka, Howa, Savage, Kimber, Cooper, Browning A-Bolt and X-Bolt, new style Win 70, and so forth. The reason is simple -- the side plates trap the crud inside. This is why the original Winchester M70 trigger design is probably the most foolproof trigger ever created. It's mechanically simple and totally open. The tradeoff is it's not capable of having quite as good a trigger pull as the multi-lever, more complex designs, which all require enclosed assemblies with side plates to hold the pins and multiple moving parts in position.

You have to keep triggers clean to ensure function. Don't let oil and grease fall inside the assembly, which attracts crud.

Bottom line is always practice the 4 basic rules of gun safety and even if you do have an unintended discharge because of this, other than frightening you, you and those around you will still be safe, since the firing pin cannot contact the primer unless the bolt is closed. Closing the bolt slowly will also lessen the chance of the primer being ignited, as you're unloading the firing pin spring gradually as the cocking piece slowly rides down the cocking cam, rather than letting its full stored energy release all at once.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2013 at 10:58
Good info Ted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2013 at 20:23
Update:
 
Since my last post, I managed to bend the safety plate on the outside of the trigger housing slightly, making it almost impossible to engage the safety. While the trigger was in this condition, I noticed that the trigger had a heavier pull than before. I went for a little while without shooting it and called Timney's customer service. They have fantastic CS and I was able to get a new safety plate within a week. I installed the new plate without a problem, the safety works fine now. But when I went to the range the trigger pull seemed very heavy (don't have a trigger pull gauge). The pull was set at 2.5 pounds by a gunsmith and it felt great, I never had any problems with the trigger until it started going off when I locked the bolt down as described above.
 
When I got home today, I adjusted the trigger pull per Timney's instructions and it seems to have lightened the pull a little bit, except the firing pin is being released just like before when I lock the bolt down. I have never adjusted the sear engagement. Also the firing pin releases whenever I lock the bolt down hard, and occasionally when I gently lock it down.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2013 at 18:04
So I tried setting the sear engagement back to factory settings and my problem seems to have been resolved. It did say that I need to turn the sear engagement "one flat turn counter clockwise" to adjust it back to normal. I don't know what one flat turn in, so I just turned it about 1/8 and called it good. If I turned it one full turn counterclockwise, the trigger would move a lot. I was able to pull the trigger shoe back towards me and then have to push it back to return it to its original position which didn't seem right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2013 at 21:50
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

You usually don't have to remove the trigger assy from the action to clean it out, as long as the action is outside the stock. The only time you'd need to remove it from the action is if you want to completely remove the sear from the housing, and you shouldn't have to do that unless it is REALLY gummed up or the parts are corroded and you need to remove rust from the sides of the sear. On a factory Rem trigger, the drift pins that hold it in the action also contain the sear. The forward pin also serves as the sear hinge, in fact. If you take both pins out, you have to be careful not to lose the sear spring, which may fly out and get lost as a result.

Remove it from the receiver ONLY if flushing it with it still attached doesn't resolve the problem. Otherwise, the trigger is really no less accessible when attached to the receiver as detached, because the open slot in the receiver where the sear protrudes is where you want to squirt the lighter fluid/mineral spirits, and the remaining sides of the assy are completely exposed below the receiver anyway.
I forgot all about this thread. 
 
I do... takes more time, but then I am sure I check and make sure everything is as clean as it can be.  I like looking at the construction.  However, mostly nowadays, I just send rifles to my gunsmith for a good cleaning every year.  I've found that method easiest and least time consuming.  I've never asked him what he does... probably will now the next time I take him a rifle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2013 at 07:37
you mean when you visit your 50? Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2013 at 08:19
No, apparently I don't have visitation rights...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2013 at 08:47
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

You usually don't have to remove the trigger assy from the action to clean it out, as long as the action is outside the stock. The only time you'd need to remove it from the action is if you want to completely remove the sear from the housing, and you shouldn't have to do that unless it is REALLY gummed up or the parts are corroded and you need to remove rust from the sides of the sear. On a factory Rem trigger, the drift pins that hold it in the action also contain the sear. The forward pin also serves as the sear hinge, in fact. If you take both pins out, you have to be careful not to lose the sear spring, which may fly out and get lost as a result.

Remove it from the receiver ONLY if flushing it with it still attached doesn't resolve the problem. Otherwise, the trigger is really no less accessible when attached to the receiver as detached, because the open slot in the receiver where the sear protrudes is where you want to squirt the lighter fluid/mineral spirits, and the remaining sides of the assy are completely exposed below the receiver anyway.
I forgot all about this thread. 
 
I do... takes more time, but then I am sure I check and make sure everything is as clean as it can be.  I like looking at the construction.  However, mostly nowadays, I just send rifles to my gunsmith for a good cleaning every year.  I've found that method easiest and least time consuming.  I've never asked him what he does... probably will now the next time I take him a rifle. 



I'm now thinking maybe I should leave the old military two-stage trigger in my VZ 24....you guys are making me nervous!!  





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2013 at 09:29
My Rem 700 in .223 has this issue too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2013 at 12:25
Does anyone know anything about setting the correct sear engagement on the Timney 510? I think that may be where the problem is since my trigger when back to normal after I played with the sear engagement adjustment. I just dont know if I did it right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 06:59
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

You usually don't have to remove the trigger assy from the action to clean it out, as long as the action is outside the stock. The only time you'd need to remove it from the action is if you want to completely remove the sear from the housing, and you shouldn't have to do that unless it is REALLY gummed up or the parts are corroded and you need to remove rust from the sides of the sear. On a factory Rem trigger, the drift pins that hold it in the action also contain the sear. The forward pin also serves as the sear hinge, in fact. If you take both pins out, you have to be careful not to lose the sear spring, which may fly out and get lost as a result.

Remove it from the receiver ONLY if flushing it with it still attached doesn't resolve the problem. Otherwise, the trigger is really no less accessible when attached to the receiver as detached, because the open slot in the receiver where the sear protrudes is where you want to squirt the lighter fluid/mineral spirits, and the remaining sides of the assy are completely exposed below the receiver anyway.
I forgot all about this thread. 
 
I do... takes more time, but then I am sure I check and make sure everything is as clean as it can be.  I like looking at the construction.  However, mostly nowadays, I just send rifles to my gunsmith for a good cleaning every year.  I've found that method easiest and least time consuming.  I've never asked him what he does... probably will now the next time I take him a rifle. 


If I get one for clean $ service, the trigger group dose come apart (all of it). If someone pays me $65 for cleaning I'm going to do the job right. I do polish a few parts in the trigger to get the gravel  feel out and set it to 4 pounds after I put it back together. I also polish the chamber. I just want people happy with there stuff when they get it back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 07:30
I've got this KelTec 9mm...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 07:41
sub2000?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 08:28
nah... just a PF-9... needs a trigger job and I've been too busy (and too lazy) to get around to it.  I'll get it done someday.  Probably a 30 minute job and I just never remember it at the right time... which shows that I just really don't want to do it... kind of like an AR...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 09:12
LOL, I got'ya. Just let me get the CZ right and I'll swap them out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 10:57
Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

LOL, I got'ya. Just let me get the CZ right and I'll swap them out.
Nah, it's too easy... I'll get around to it.  Besides, I thought you were going take the AR and play with it for a while.  I'm going to try to get it operational as soon as I get back.  Once I do that, it will just sit... I have the FNH FNAR that I really like...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 10:59
yeah, i got to play with the ar a while... someone has to get it working correctly...lol
 
 




Edited by Kickboxer - August/05/2013 at 11:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 11:31
THEN AGAIN i'M SURE THE 50 WOULDN'T MIND SOME COMPANY....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 11:59
Gil, did you ever have any progress on that bolt issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2013 at 12:15
Originally posted by Son of Ed Son of Ed wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

You usually don't have to remove the trigger assy from the action to clean it out, as long as the action is outside the stock. The only time you'd need to remove it from the action is if you want to completely remove the sear from the housing, and you shouldn't have to do that unless it is REALLY gummed up or the parts are corroded and you need to remove rust from the sides of the sear. On a factory Rem trigger, the drift pins that hold it in the action also contain the sear. The forward pin also serves as the sear hinge, in fact. If you take both pins out, you have to be careful not to lose the sear spring, which may fly out and get lost as a result.

Remove it from the receiver ONLY if flushing it with it still attached doesn't resolve the problem. Otherwise, the trigger is really no less accessible when attached to the receiver as detached, because the open slot in the receiver where the sear protrudes is where you want to squirt the lighter fluid/mineral spirits, and the remaining sides of the assy are completely exposed below the receiver anyway.
I forgot all about this thread. 
 
I do... takes more time, but then I am sure I check and make sure everything is as clean as it can be.  I like looking at the construction.  However, mostly nowadays, I just send rifles to my gunsmith for a good cleaning every year.  I've found that method easiest and least time consuming.  I've never asked him what he does... probably will now the next time I take him a rifle. 



I'm now thinking maybe I should leave the old military two-stage trigger in my VZ 24....you guys are making me nervous!!  






Or you could try the trigger from Huber concepts.  It takes a little tweaking to get it properly working, but once done it works well and it is not an enclosed design.

ILya
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