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Gun firing when I lock the bolt down

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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gun firing when I lock the bolt down
    Posted: June/24/2013 at 23:25
I was doing some dry fire practice today and I noticed that when I lock the bolt down the firing pin is released without me pulling the trigger.

Prior to this happening the first pull of the trigger was heavier than the subsequent pulls after the firing pin had been cocked for a few minutes.

I am using a Timney 510 trigger. It was adjusted by a reputable gunsmith about 400-500 rounds ago.

I haven't cleaned the trigger since I was at a rifle match a couple of weeks ago and it was very windy and dusty. I did field strip the bolt and clean and re lubricate it.

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening and what I can do? My rifle is a Remington 700.

Edited by Gil P. - June/24/2013 at 23:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 01:45
It could be that your trigger adjustment has moved and it is slipping on the sear. Timney triggers are easy to adjust.
Cock your rifle and bang the rifle butt first on the ground. Is it firing?
Flick your safety on and off. Is it firing?
 
If so, these are signs that your trigger sear adjustment is wrong or has worn etc.
 
If you cannot do it yourself, a visit to most gunsmiths can fix it in a jiffy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 05:31
Also, Remington has been having issues with their rifles going off accidentally in the exact same manner as you have described.  Someone on this site has even put up a youtube video of shooters demonstrating this dangerous situation....somewhere on this site.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 05:57
FYI,what SOE said is correct but it  has been proven by Remington that it only happens on modified guns,not factory stock guns! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 08:17
My Ruger with a Timmney trigger started doing exactly the same thing, when I stripped the rifle you could see how the sear had become extremely polished. I guess it was just slipping over it instead of stopping in place.

Just do like 8shots said and adjust the trigger, it will sort the problem out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 12:54
This is a problem that sometimes happens with enclosed housing trigger designs like the Rem, Timney, etc. units. In every case that I've seen this problem, it was due to oil/grease running down into the housing around the sear, then getting caked up with grit and residue, thereby locking up or slowing down sear reset. This happens even without intent when oil and barrel cleaners from normal maintenance accidentally run down into the trigger housing. You're getting a gummy film trapped between the side plates of the trigger housing and the sides of the sear. It doesn't happen with "open" trigger assy designs like the legacy Win M70, because there are no side plates to trap the gunk against moving parts. The solution is to remove the barreled action from the stock, then flood the inside of the housing with lighter fluid, mineral spirits, or other solvent (squirted through the top of the trigger assy, around the sear and allowed to run down into the housing) to flush out the gelled lubricant and/or accumulated debris. When you think you've fully flushed out the gunk, work the bolt and dry fire several times afterward to confirm sear reset is back to normal again. Periodically flush the trigger assy with lighter fluid to keep it clean. Don't use oils inside the trigger as it just attracts debris. Trigger components don't move much and don't receive any significant head and friction, and therefore don't need added lubrication. Just keep it clean.

DO NOT adjust your trigger until you've done the above, as your problem is unlikely to be related to adjustments IF your trigger was previously adjusted to a safe condition to begin with. The only situations that could cause your once safe trigger adjustments to be unsafe now is if the person who did the adjustments neglected to use some kind of thread locker on the adj screws, someone messed with your trigger without your knowledge, you've somehow had abnormal wear on sear surfaces, or your springs have somehow weakened over time. 


Edited by RifleDude - June/25/2013 at 13:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 16:27
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

This is a problem that sometimes happens with enclosed housing trigger designs like the Rem, Timney, etc. units. In every case that I've seen this problem, it was due to oil/grease running down into the housing around the sear, then getting caked up with grit and residue, thereby locking up or slowing down sear reset. This happens even without intent when oil and barrel cleaners from normal maintenance accidentally run down into the trigger housing. You're getting a gummy film trapped between the side plates of the trigger housing and the sides of the sear. It doesn't happen with "open" trigger assy designs like the legacy Win M70, because there are no side plates to trap the gunk against moving parts. The solution is to remove the barreled action from the stock, then flood the inside of the housing with lighter fluid, mineral spirits, or other solvent (squirted through the top of the trigger assy, around the sear and allowed to run down into the housing) to flush out the gelled lubricant and/or accumulated debris. When you think you've fully flushed out the gunk, work the bolt and dry fire several times afterward to confirm sear reset is back to normal again. Periodically flush the trigger assy with lighter fluid to keep it clean. Don't use oils inside the trigger as it just attracts debris. Trigger components don't move much and don't receive any significant head and friction, and therefore don't need added lubrication. Just keep it clean.

DO NOT adjust your trigger until you've done the above, as your problem is unlikely to be related to adjustments IF your trigger was previously adjusted to a safe condition to begin with. The only situations that could cause your once safe trigger adjustments to be unsafe now is if the person who did the adjustments neglected to use some kind of thread locker on the adj screws, someone messed with your trigger without your knowledge, you've somehow had abnormal wear on sear surfaces, or your springs have somehow weakened over time. 


This is, by far, the best explanation / fix I have ever encountered to rectify this issue.  Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 16:56
Yes! Nice write up Ted. I also have experienced this. The lighter fluid works wonders.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 18:07
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:







This is a problem that sometimes happens with enclosed housing trigger designs like the Rem, Timney, etc. units. In every case that I've seen this problem, it was due to oil/grease running down into the housing around the sear, then getting caked up with grit and residue, thereby locking up or slowing down sear reset. This happens even without intent when oil and barrel cleaners from normal maintenance accidentally run down into the trigger housing. You're getting a gummy film trapped between the side plates of the trigger housing and the sides of the sear. It doesn't happen with "open" trigger assy designs like the legacy Win M70, because there are no side plates to trap the gunk against moving parts. The solution is to remove the barreled action from the stock, then flood the inside of the housing with lighter fluid, mineral spirits, or other solvent (squirted through the top of the trigger assy, around the sear and allowed to run down into the housing) to flush out the gelled lubricant and/or accumulated debris. When you think you've fully flushed out the gunk, work the bolt and dry fire several times afterward to confirm sear reset is back to normal again. Periodically flush the trigger assy with lighter fluid to keep it clean. Don't use oils inside the trigger as it just attracts debris. Trigger components don't move much and don't receive any significant head and friction, and therefore don't need added lubrication. Just keep it clean.


DO NOT adjust your trigger until you've done the above, as your problem is unlikely to be related to adjustments IF your trigger was previously adjusted to a safe condition to begin with. The only situations that could cause your once safe trigger adjustments to be unsafe now is if the person who did the adjustments neglected to use some kind of thread locker on the adj screws, someone messed with your trigger without your knowledge, you've somehow had abnormal wear on sear surfaces, or your springs have somehow weakened over time. 







Rifledude,
I am glad you posted this because before I was having this problem, I was trying to flush some bedding compound out of the holes in the top of the receiver with some lubricant. I tried not to allow it to drip down into the actions but it may very well have, and since it was the rear receiver holes, it probably leaked into the top of the trigger housing.

Ill flush it out like you said (I assume I can just do it through the inside of the receiver without removing the trigger assembly from the action) and let you know how it has worked.

Thanks for the great post!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 18:37
You should remove the trigger assembly...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 22:52
Will do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2013 at 22:55
Thankfully you caught it without an AD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2013 at 09:01
You usually don't have to remove the trigger assy from the action to clean it out, as long as the action is outside the stock. The only time you'd need to remove it from the action is if you want to completely remove the sear from the housing, and you shouldn't have to do that unless it is REALLY gummed up or the parts are corroded and you need to remove rust from the sides of the sear. On a factory Rem trigger, the drift pins that hold it in the action also contain the sear. The forward pin also serves as the sear hinge, in fact. If you take both pins out, you have to be careful not to lose the sear spring, which may fly out and get lost as a result.

Remove it from the receiver ONLY if flushing it with it still attached doesn't resolve the problem. Otherwise, the trigger is really no less accessible when attached to the receiver as detached, because the open slot in the receiver where the sear protrudes is where you want to squirt the lighter fluid/mineral spirits, and the remaining sides of the assy are completely exposed below the receiver anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2013 at 11:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2013 at 13:03
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

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SHHHHHH!  ED's head is big enough already... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2013 at 16:00
Good news, flushing the trigger housing with lighter fluid seems to have worked. It is no longer firing when I lock the bolt down. Thanks, Rifledude.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2013 at 19:20
Ted, Ted he's our man. If he can't fix it, nobody can!!! Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2013 at 05:27
Hmmmm makes me worry about the trigger design when a little bit of gunk can cause big problems!!!  Glad it seems to be fixed by I'd forever be worried about that trigger doing it again at the worst possible time... Cool
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