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Greenhorn and a new CZ 527 bolt .223 scope?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2014 at 16:11
Canuck Bob View Drop Down
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I've been lurking on and off for years.  I recently bought a CZ 527 lefty american in .223 used.  The rifle will need a scope and I am looking for both an education and advice.  This will be very long to avoid the usual error of not enough info for knowledgeable advice and no idea of the personality of the new guy.  Please accept my apology in advance.  Also I have thick skin so don't be bashful if I'm off track.  If you have owned 3 scopes you are far more experienced than me.  I've been shooting for 50 years and military trained back when combat rifles weren't gopher guns, oops.

The CZ 527 had a problem with bolt handle clearance but mine has a  redesigned handle eliminating this concern for anything I might buy.  The factory rings with the rifle are very tall.  Warne makes a decent height medium base and Millet Angle Locs are the lowest.  My preference is low to the rifle and these are planned.

My only scope experience is with a Leupy 2.5X M8 Compact once mounted on a 444.  It was refurbed for free at the Canadian depot and if there is anything wrong with its old optics I can't tell. The only reason it came off is that I treasure the hand carry of lever actions and my peep was a tiny bit faster at feet in griz country, IMHO the best hunting rifles ever designed for my style.  For my 444 I chose to reduce the range not up the optics for eyesight changes.  That little scope now sits in the rather high factory rings for the CZ.

I have been considering fixed power in discussions on other forums.  If I was to layout a list of current preferences it would be a 4X to 6X fixed, long eye relief, 1" tube, small scope and 30mm range objective max.  The little CZ is a micro mauser action with narrow bridge spacing and the rifle fits like a well proportioned adult rimfire.  It originally had a 3-9X40 EFR Leupy on it but man it looked like a bazooka bolted to a 22. I declined the scope.  The line of Leupold Ultralights has caught my eye but reports here have me concerned about Leupy optics a tiny bit.

This rifle will be my only scoped bolt action and a fun gun for plinking to range work.  The only hunting would be chance coyote and wolf because we are over-run with them here.  My idea of fun is setting up targets on cutlines and shooting away at random range.  100m grouping means very little to me.  A goal of 10 out of 10 hits at 350 yards on an 8.5X11 sheet of paper in Canadian weather does mean something to give you an idea of my definition of precision.  A Ferrari is not as desirable as my Jeep because the mission is too narrow regardless of the precision.  

I really treasure offhand performance.  I'm a "work up a load and set and forget" kinda guy.  Planning 55gr Horn SPSX and an Extreme powder when stocks recover.  Until then Horn. factory ammo will be used.

I plan to get used to the rifle with the 2.5X for now. Adding either the Warne medium or Millet low rings. Then maybe a 4X or 6X that might end up on my 9422 some day.  My vision is such that my stable of lever rifles with peep sights is too limiting hence this rifle.

I've studied many variable vs. fixed threads here.  Now I'm wondering if the fixed is too limiting because of my requirement for precise offhand service and the abilities of the bolt and 223.  I am also a confirmed Luddite so the simplicity of a fixed is very appealing.  If money was no option an 1-4or6X24 premium scope would be considered.  While researching I started to bump into the tactical stuff and the Accupoint 1-4X seemed to make sense if a broader mission was added.  The AR specific scopes might work for this little rifle?  

Here is what I hate about some scopes.  Sight pictures that turn black in a wiggle or narrow range of relief.  Sight picture bounce offhand at 6X (even 4X) seems to almost unmanageable for my tastes.  A reticle and sight system that requires a special combat school or phone app to use.  Finally no batteries or a reticle that is not useable if all the gimmicks fail.  This request is in reference to being the last scope bought for this rifle so all quality levels are affordable and considered.  One 4X power that caught my eye was the IOR, tough, good optics, but heavy.  I would prefer to avoid the lower end choices optically and stick to mid to high end optics for a cheap price of course!!  

Of course I have a few questions due to my lack of experience.  Why do many variables have such a broad range of eye relief between low and high power.  This seems to indicate that the real eye relief is the low power setting if a guy practices snapping quick sight pictures with consistent cheek welds?  Is sliding ones face back and forth with variation in power really not an issue?  

Larger objectives than technically required should help eliminate the sight picture flickering on and off because of the XL exit?  When i snap the little 2.5X to my shoulder there is this incredible focused optical peepsight always in view. I think a 1X optical peep effect is more important than the max power.  I'm guessing both eyes open with very little distortion between either eye has to be about as quick as can be. This is my main reason for considering a variable.  I know a 2.5X is useable on deer and moose to 200 yards.

Do a few people confuse the limits for hunting light with full dark?  I could see moose up till well past legal time well enough to poach if so inclined.

Finally warranty, as a Canadian Leupold is the leader by a wide margin IMO.  The depot is 30 miles from home and turn around is often days.

They also function as a custom shop so personal upgrades are available and EASY.  For a Canadian that is a major deal maker and makes Leupold used scopes well worth considering.  Vortex gets good marks and most other better suppliers take care of you well just not quickly as factory return is often necessary and cross border gunsight shipping is a pain in the rump both ways for the rifleman or riflewoman.  

Thanks for your patience, Bob, Calgary, AB.  




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2014 at 16:49
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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I have this one on my CZ 527, and I like it a lot, though the reticle is extremely fine and sometimes difficult in low light. 

http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x44-Viper-HS-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48286.aspx

Here's a pic of the setup:




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2014 at 08:32
vortech347 View Drop Down
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I have a 1.5-6 x 36 Bushnell Elite 4200 on my 6.8 AR that I think would be a fine option for what you are looking for.

You can't quite do a true both eyes open shooting with it but you can scan with both eyes open and then just close your other eye when ready to aim and shoot.

Another option in a variable is the Leupold VX 2 1-4.  A buddy has one of them on his 6.8 and it's small, has good optics and has a plain old Duplex reticle in it.  

A fixed power is fine for the longer shots but I personally would prefer a low power variable if you ever think you are going to walking around or shooting at any short ranges.

When I hunt hogs with my 6.8 I usually set my scope to 3x or lower to have a better FOV and better light gathering.  At the ranges we have our blinds/feeders set up there is no need for any more power.

At the range though it's nice to have 6x to do load testing at 100 yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2014 at 17:02
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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I have a 3-9x36 Swaro on my CZ527 in .223.

I would not have spent the full retail on that scope, I was lucky enough to find an ex-demo scope.

If I was buying today I'd go for the 1.5-8x32 Minox ZA5.

Good low end for off hand and quick acquisition in timber and bigger mag for your long range shooting.

Whatever you choose, enjoy your shooting.

ATB,

Scrummy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 08:05
vortech347 View Drop Down
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Scrumbag,

Please share a link to this 1.5-8 Minox model.  I can't find it anywhere and it's very intriguing.

Thanks,

Greg
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 08:08
vortech347 View Drop Down
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Looked some more and that model appears to be discontinued.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 08:52
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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Well still on the Minox site: http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=8335&L=2
(Maybe not up to date though).
 
ATB,

Scrummy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 10:50
vortech347 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Well still on the Minox site: http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=8335&L=2
(Maybe not up to date though).
 
ATB,

Scrummy

Interesting.  I looked there earlier and must have just missed it.  But nobody has it for sale and several of the sites say discontinued.

http://www.competitor.com/minox-za-5-1-5-8x32-lightweight-shotgun-riflescope.html

Seems like a very good set of features for a short to mid range hunting optic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 20:15
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I have 2 CZ527's, the .22 Hornet wears a Swarovski 3-9x36 in medium Warne rings, which needs the bolt knob ground down for clearance, even with the 39mm diameter ocular bell.
The second is in 7.62x39 and wears a Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36, bolt handle not ground down and scope is in QD Warne high rings.
This is a small and quite dainty scope, but even so the bolt misses the scope by only about 1.5mm.
I also have a couple of sets of the factory supplied CZ rings, they are slightly taller than the high Warne's.
I would never again use the Millet* rings on any scope or rifle I own, any set of rings that can mangle a scope so easily should never have been made.
You will also find scope with long eye relief (like Leupold) cause more scope mounting issues than anything else on these mini Mauser actions due to the closely spaced bases.

Neil. 
* known on many forums as "mangle locks"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 21:34
biggreen747 View Drop Down
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If you like the Warne rings by all means stay with them and disregard the Millett.. Having read over your OP a couple times I think you would be very comfortable with the 1-4 Trijicon accupoint with triangle reticle. I recently acquired a 3-9 Trijicon with the green triangle and it is an outstanding optic. Being you are very comfortable with quick shooting with open sights the Trijicon will feel very natural to you when you shoulder the rifle. You also mention hunting coyotes and wolves. Now I don't know what your laws are in AB but in many States we can hunt dogs at nite outside of normal big game hunting hours. Once again the Trijicon moves to the front. While others may have different opinions I have found that it is quite easy to shoot very precisely with the tip of that triangle in the limited amount of shooting I have done with mine. If the Trijicon is just not in the budget you may also consider the 1-4 Nikon Monarch with #4 reticle or possibly the 1.75-6 Leupold VX3. I ran one of those on my AR for awhile before doing some swapping and selling to acquire some higher end optics and I can honestly say its one I should've kept. I had the heavy duplex which was great in low light but still thin enough in the center to be precise with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2014 at 21:44
biggreen747 View Drop Down
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To address your question of the variable eye relief. For the most part it will not vary more than .5in. It is certinally noticeable but not all that hard to get used to. Being you are mounting it on a 223 it is much less of a concern than if you were mounting it on say a 375 where the heavy recoil is an issue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2014 at 19:39
Canuck Bob View Drop Down
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Thank you all.  I stumbled on a very clean Leupold M8 4X28 scope.  An earlier Compact rimfire model I think.   It seems they were the same platform as the M8 4X32.  The current FXseries has the little ultralight 4X28 as a FX-1 (VX-1 spec) and the standard 4X32 is an FX-2 (Vx-2 spec) and pricier.  I'm looking for the Warne medium rings now.  Being new to scopes I figured to play with this scope and rifle then maybe move it to a rimfire later. 

I've done a lot of research and find most advice very sound above.  I think I need to consider my mission for this rifle before dropping money on a higher end scope.  I don't picture a bunch of group precision shooting or long range gophers.  

The Accupoint 1-4X or a Variable 1-6X that does allow true 1X would be my first choice in a variable.  I want to try one and use it like an optical peep sight.  The reflex sights hold no interest or anything battery powered. For that kind of money a 1-6X24 can be had and that would take care of the occasional need for 6X.  It seems a little foolish to buy a scope that is worth more than the rifle but many guys buy the high end stuff in Alberta it turns out.  The Leupold VX-6 1-6X24 specs out nice but the price is staggering.  Of course the Accupoint is in the same league. The sweet Euro glass does seem noticeably heavier than the above options.  In the real world it will be a long time for me to afford such options.

The Warne rings are just .030 taller than the Milletts and it hardly matters.  The CZ rings are just too tall, kinda looks goofy.  My bolt handle is the new style and there is tons of room with the scopes above for clearance.  
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