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Gotta ask here 7mm Ultra Mag by any other |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Rod..... when you sold the .270, too bad you didn't get a 30-06! After reading your posts and what you plan to use it on, the old '06 would have been the ticket! I have an 06 in a BAR that is a dream to shoot. And talk about knock down power....... I've shot @15 deer with the '06 and only 2 of them did not drop in their tracks and that was due to poor shot placement on my part. The others literally crumpled! One year I thought a .243 was enough and lost my first "mounter" buck. Went back to the 06 and haven't looked back. Everybody makes a 30-06 and they are so versatile ....... factory loads from 125 grn to 200 grn! If I were going to buy a Mag and use it for deer hunting, I'd lean towards the 7mm...... that's plenty of power and recoil for me. If I were going to buy a mag for an Elk rifle, I would take hard look at 325 WSM.
As far as your last scope question........ a Bushnell 4200 Elite in 3-9X40 is $258.00 and the Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 can be had for $399.00. You won't find a Luepold that can compare to these 2 for the money!
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take em!
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miket_81
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Do you handload? If so this may sound crazy but you have to take a look at the 338 win mag. I just got one about a month ago and just love it. I was really never interested in it and wouldn't be if I didn't handload. If you study the balistics it is probably one of the most versatile calibers made. You can shoot lighter bullets like 180's through it faster than a 300 win mag and around that of a 300 wby. I have seen loads over 3200fps. Then you have the option to load heavier bullets for tougher game. I have a nice mild load with the 215gr sierra gamekings @2600fps that should be a fun whitetail round. Mine is a Browning BAR Safari. It is a really nice option for the caliber. The gas action feels like it takes away around 1/3 of the recoil away. I have a bunch of deer rifles in various calibers(30-06,7mm-08,7STW and such) and this one seens to be one of the neatest.
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jvc58dke
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/05/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Superlite,
An alternative to the 7mm RUM is a 7mm Weatherby Magnum. Firing a 175 grain SP you get 3070 fps at the muzzle (factory load) in a Weatherby 7mm vs 3025 in a premier A-Frame bullet in the RUM. They are pretty similar in most characteristics.....except you can get the Weatherby on the sweet Mark V rifle with IMHO the best out of the box accuracy from any manufacturer...and you can usually find them for less than $1000 if you are patient on gunbroker or gunsamerica. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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The new Weatherby Mark V hunting rifles are not as acurrate as the new Savage 14,114. I have observed this several times. |
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miket_81
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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I own two Weatherby's and they shoot into the same hole. It really shouldn't matter anyways. The difference is how much better of a hunting rifle the WBY is. After your rifle gets it's shots into an inch and a half anything past that is just for fun and really doesn't contribute to the effectiveness of a hunting rifle.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Mike81
I do not own any Savages or Weatherby's, I own a Model 70 in 7mm WSM and a Mauser Magnum in .375 H&H for hunting. What I posted in my previous post was meant with no insult intended just the field tests that me and my relatives have done. The Weatherby's that we tested were the new Mark V made in Japan and the Savage 14,and 114 were the new American Classics. I am glad to hear that your Weatherby's are exeptionally accurate and you are right a certain level of accuracy is not needed for a hunting rifle. |
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miket_81
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Just curious what calibers were the test rifles chambered in. I wasn't insulted in any way, just making a point. The savages tend to be very accurate and I actually would love to have one of the model 12bvss of one of there new target guns. They are really cool and good shooters. I for one am getting sick of hunters doing one of 2 things. Selecting huge rifles that they can't shoot well because they kick so hard, and I am talking about new hunters that get to shoot about 2x a year not experienced riflemen. These people get these super magnums thinking they are good out too 400 yards when they probably couldn't hit a 8 inch circle off of a bench at 300yrds. Not everyone now just the majority.
The other group is the ones that think their hunting rifle has to shoot every shot into one hole. They have no concept of practical hunting accuracy and haven't had alot of time in the field. I hand load and am very particular about it and sure it's nice when you work up a hunting load that shoots into one hole but it shouldn't be the objective. If I have the choice of a great hunting rifle like a Ruger m77 tang safety and a 12 pound target gun, I would always take the ruger, is funny now days more and more would take the target gun, it's funny how many people are having these very expensive heavy awkward rifles to take into the field to hunt whitetails with. By the way I ran two shots out of my old trusty m77 30-06 @ 100yrds yesterday to make sure it was hitting where it should and I had an oval an inch and half straight up. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Miket_81
A Mark V synthetic in .280 rem and Mark V fibermark in .300wthby. A 14 in 7mm-08 and a 114 in 300 win mag. I have also seen very similar bad choices for hunting rifles as the one you stated above. I have a cousin that hunts deer, and boar with a Model 70 Tactical Sharpshooter and a Leupold 6-20x50, I have another cousin that uses a Sharps 45-70 octogon with iron sights and he is a much more succesful hunter. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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I have to add my 2 cents here with regard to the .5 moa club. It really amazes me what some folks will spend on a stainless/synthetic rifle these days. Take a look at some of these Jarrett's, Bansner's, Echol's (12K bucks) and Miller's to name a few. It seems like there is a certain clientèle out there that have no limit on what they can/will spend on one of these babies largely because they bare the name of one of these builders. I was shooting at my range several years ago with my Remington 700 APR in 300 WM along with a gentleman that was shooting his new Borden 300 WSM w/ a Swaro PH scope. Long story short, I had no problem shooting smaller groups, on a regular basis, then he did with the Borden that set him back more than 6K with the scope set-up. I am equally amused at the folks who require one of the "super magnums" to hunt whitetails in NY's Catskill mountain area. I purchased this 300 WM mostly because of the rifle it was chambered for. It was just a very nice bonus that the rifle happens to be very accurate. Personally, I don't feel that it is ethical to be sniping at live game at ranges of more than 400 yards if the opportunity is available to shrink the distance. Not trying to start a debate or challenge anyone's marksmanship. I say this after logging alot of time behind department rifles and my personal hunting tools. I would much rather log range time behind my 280 Ackley than my 300 WM. Never met one whitetail that was happy to be on the south side of the Ackley muzzle. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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The most expierienced hunter with the most kills in my family shoots a .270 M77 made in the 70,s with a Leupold Vari-XIII 3.5-10x40 . His freezer and fridge always has game. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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My opinion is that it is OK to hunt with whatever you like. I make fun of my cousin with his 16 pound setup but he is still a cool guy and he is happy, I feel that is what is most important. If you are satisfied and it works well for you that is all that matters. My concern comes when a new hunter comes along with the bigger is better philosify buys the largest caliber he can find and is unsafe in the handling of his weapon, I have actually seen these types point a loaded rifle unententialy towards other shooters. There are also some people that are not fully there mentaly and get thier hands on some serious weapons legally,I do not know how they do it. Then there are the flat out haters,I say just keep it cool and enjoy yourself. |
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miket_81
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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I would have to agree. I have some rifles that are a little unnessary, but they are fun and i enjoy them. I just don't think that the writers and manufactures are looking in the best interest of hunters sometimes.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Very true Mike_81 great post, thanks to this forum with the hands on information available here alot of these writers and manufactures better look out. |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Optics Talk police
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Anthony
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/01/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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There coming for you Mike McDonald, Find a fallout shelter!
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Mike has them in his pocket, thats the Wolf.
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NCHunter
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I have shot a variety of rifle/scope/caliber/manufacturer combinations in the past. Savage, Sako, Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Ruger,30-30, 25-06, 270, 30-06, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, and so many different scopes I can't remember them all. I now hunt with a Rem 700 ADL 30-06, 165 grain Fed fusion, rifle basix drop in trigger, Leupold 3.5 to 10 vxIII, with Leupold 1 pc mount and rings. This combination shoots sub 1 inch groups at a 100 yards. I have been 100% with this rifle so far, and have never had anything go more than 15 yards after being hit. All of the mentioned rifles above were great guns as long as they had the right combination of ammo, and scope to go with them. I use to like the idea of a magnum rifle, and have had a 2 different ruger 300 mags that would shoot 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards, I have a Savage 110 7mm rem mag right now that will handloads in a hole the size of a nickle. I prefer to hunt with the 30-06 since it fits me better. For all praticle purposes I don't need a magnum for the type of game I am hunting and distances I am shooting. The difference in the power of the 300 wsm and 300 um is small in comparision. From what I have read in reviews and heard from people that shoot the 2 is that the WSM is more accurate than the UM. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the same results with the WSM and UM. What good is all that power, if you can't hit what your aiming at. It only takes 1000 foot pounds of energy to kill deer size game clean. If your going to hunt Grizzly, Cape buffalo, ect, and plan on taking shots at 400 plus yards than I can see wanting that little extra bit of power, and the difference in accuracy wouldn't be too much of a factor on an animal of that size. If not, why put your shoulder through that abuse. I don't know of anyone other than Remington that makes a rifle chambered in the Ultra mag cartridge as of now. Good luck on your quest.
NCHunter |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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All of the hunting rifles I have shot in WSM have had Sub-Moa results. The UM hunting rifles were not as accurate, I have not shot a UM in a heavy barrel. I would say having a Heavy barreled rifle in the UM is the way to go if you like that cartrige. Cheap has had exellent results with his. |
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miket_81
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Aout the 1000fl/lbs to kill a whitetail. I have never liked the use of energy for deciding how effective a bullet will be at killing game. It is also important to consider all of the variables. When someone takes a gun say a 30-06 and looks at an energy table he would see that it has what on average 2700-2800 fps with moderate bullet wts. There will be a big difference in how that bullet spends it's first 1000ft/lbs and it's last 1000ft/lbs. Not to say it wont kill a deer, there very easy to kill but it is important to have a idea of bullet construction before someone takes a 450yrd shot. Bullet construction is the most important factor in how effective a hunting rifle will be on game, not energy, velocity, sectional density, and stupid OGW and TKO charts.
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NCHunter
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Bullet type, bullet design, bullet weight, bullet velocity, bullet energy, bullet trajectory = all I want to know for what type of game I am hunting. I don't get into the Ballistic Coeffiecient charts.
NCHunter
And yes, 1000 foot pounds of energy is enough energy according to the "Hunters guide to ethical hunting" to cleanly dispatch deer size game. Not saying you can't kill a deer with a .22 LR by shooting it in the neck @ 40 yards, I know guys that do, but it is ethical? HMMMM..... I guess it depends what type of hunter you are. |
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