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Goodbye Guns&Ammo, good riddance

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 18:54
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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I know, I know, Guns&Ammo has been the bane of my existence for almost a year, I am a slow learner.

As a long-time subscriber, I first noticed an alarming trend a few years back: no matter what Leupold product was evaluated or used, it always received glowing recommendations.  Same with Kimber handguns.  The experience was always fantastic, no problems are failures or anything negative to comment or report.

Both companies, Kimber and Leupold, were once known for making a great product at a reasonable price.  They both, deservedly so, garnered much market share - then both raised their prices and lowered their quality.  Since their rise and subsequent descent, many other makes have stepped up to fill the void.  But, alas, I digress, back to Guns&Ammo.

The real head-scratching started about a year ago, when Craig Boddington wrote an article trumpeting praise for Countersniper optics, the Dane Cook of tactical scopes. ( When an entire community knows something sucks, having a famous personality step up and claim otherwise doesn't usually work so well.  A few Countersnipers were bought on Craig's praise, all  - that were actually mounted on anything but airsoft -  have probably now failed, so the jig is up, Craig. )

If I were on the edge after Craig's venal lies, I am not now.  In the February 2011 edition, Wayne van Zwoll talks about accurate rifles(starting on page 36.)  He begins with precision and accuracy, then moves into specific ammo and fire arms manufacturers and how their efforts have yielded common sub-MOA guns.  He describes a few sub-MOA rifles and their makers - then comes Greybull Precision.  What Countersniper is to the tactical shooting community, Greybull is to the "long range hunting" industry.  Think Huskemaw optics, but with a shop that sells overpriced guns too.  Strangely, the comments shift (almost imperceptibly) from sub-MOA to MOA shooting. "I've used Greybull scopes out to 780 yards banging MOA groups on steel with center holds."  Really?  And that is impressive?  Your Greybull-sold, pimped-out Leupold scope can do MOA at 700 yards? A 10X SuperSniper with a Kenton BDC can do sub-MOA all day - for far less money.  Personally, I expect more from a $1100+ scope, maybe that's why I own no Greybull products.

The final nail in the proverbial coffin came yesterday, my last Guns&Ammo, with a cover saying "Your subscription has ended."  Finally.

Always wanting a good laugh, I flipped through the pages and was rewarded with another Greybull advertisement-hiding-in-an-"objective"-article.  Page 40, upper left, "Long range hunting rifles by Greybull Precision show target/sniper rifle influences in their stock design."

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a quality periodicals pointing out worth-while ways for me to spend money; but what I find intolerable is when these magazines, for which I paid money, begin praising products unworthy of my cash.  Ten Kimber ads in one magazine does not a great pistol make.

Leupold makes a thoroughly decent scope - at a great scope price. Kimber makes a decent (but unusually failure-prone) 1911 - at a pretty hefty price. Countersniper makes a garbage scope suitable for safe queens and mall ninjas - but incapable of withstanding real-world use.  Greybull...well... good luck finding one of their rifles or scopes that justifies the price.

If I could polish a turd, I could  easily pay Guns&Ammo to tell their readers how great it looked.

Farewell, G&A, don't let the door hit you on the way out.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 19:03
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I know, I know, Guns&Ammo has been the bane of my existence for almost a year, I am a slow learner.

As a long-time subscriber, I first noticed an alarming trend a few years back: no matter what Leupold product was evaluated or used, it always received glowing recommendations.  Same with Kimber handguns.  The experience was always fantastic, no problems are failures or anything negative to comment or report.

Both companies, Kimber and Leupold, were once known for making a great product at a reasonable price.  They both, deservedly so, garnered much market share - then both raised their prices and lowered their quality.  Since their rise and subsequent descent, many other makes have stepped up to fill the void.  But, alas, I digress, back to Guns&Ammo.

The real head-scratching started about a year ago, when Craig Boddington wrote an article trumpeting praise for Countersniper optics, the Dane Cook of tactical scopes. ( When an entire community knows something sucks, having a famous personality step up and claim otherwise doesn't usually work so well.  A few Countersnipers were bought on Craig's praise, all  - that were actually mounted on anything but airsoft -  have probably now failed, so the jig is up, Craig. )

If I were on the edge after Craig's venal lies, I am not now.  In the February 2011 edition, Wayne van Zwoll talks about accurate rifles(starting on page 36.)  He begins with precision and accuracy, then moves into specific ammo and fire arms manufacturers and how their efforts have yielded common sub-MOA guns.  He describes a few sub-MOA rifles and their makers - then comes Greybull Precision.  What Countersniper is to the tactical shooting community, Greybull is to the "long range hunting" industry.  Think Huskemaw optics, but with a shop that sells overpriced guns too.  Strangely, the comments shift (almost imperceptibly) from sub-MOA to MOA shooting. "I've used Greybull scopes out to 780 yards banging MOA groups on steel with center holds."  Really?  And that is impressive?  Your Greybull-sold, pimped-out Leupold scope can do MOA at 700 yards? A 10X SuperSniper with a Kenton BDC can do sub-MOA all day - for far less money.  Personally, I expect more from a $1100+ scope, maybe that's why I own no Greybull products.

The final nail in the proverbial coffin came yesterday, my last Guns&Ammo, with a cover saying "Your subscription has ended."  Finally.

Always wanting a good laugh, I flipped through the pages and was rewarded with another Greybull advertisement-hiding-in-an-"objective"-article.  Page 40, upper left, "Long range hunting rifles by Greybull Precision show target/sniper rifle influences in their stock design."

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a quality periodicals pointing out worth-while ways for me to spend money; but what I find intolerable is when these magazines, for which I paid money, begin praising products unworthy of my cash.  Ten Kimber ads in one magazine does not a great pistol make.

Leupold makes a thoroughly decent scope - at a great scope price. Kimber makes a decent (but unusually failure-prone) 1911 - at a pretty hefty price. Countersniper makes a garbage scope suitable for safe queens and mall ninjas - but incapable of withstanding real-world use.  Greybull...well... good luck finding one of their rifles or scopes that justifies the price.

If I could polish a turd, I could  easily pay Guns&Ammo to tell their readers how great it looked.

Farewell, G&A, don't let the door hit you on the way out.





and thats why i read rifle shooter, layne simpson is the man!!! no bullsh*t with him.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 19:17
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Am taking recommendations for a new subscription.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 19:40
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Bowhunter. http://www.bowhunter.com/
even if you dont have a bow you will learn useful hunting tips
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 20:06
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Soldier of fortune... not quite a guns and ammo style mag but I enjoy it.  might be worth checking out if you've yet to read one?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 20:39
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Rifle and Handloader.  I always appreciated them. 
 
I believe my wife has just signed me up for twenty more years of Guns & Ammo. 
 
I also read Shooter's Bibles from 1958I can look up all the guns that I want and see what I could have paid for them when I was eight years old.     
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 20:47
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Rifle and Handloader.  I always appreciated them. 
 
I believe my wife has just signed me up for twenty more years of Guns & Ammo. 
 
I also read Shooter's Bibles from 1958I can look up all the guns that I want and see what I could have paid for them when I was eight years old.     
 
 

rifle and handloader are too much into leupold.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 20:52
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+1 for rifle and rifle shooter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 21:09
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I just subscribed to "Hunting Classics" and  really enjoy it.  While most of the products advertised in it are out of my league, there are alot of good stories and beautiful hunting locations.  It's more of a "coffee table" type magazine, but I look forward getting it every other month.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 22:40
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I can agree with the G&A thing! Sad that advertising has to determine the ratings. I am also a avid Mountain, and Road biker. The magazines that are dedicated to those sports are the same way. You buy a ad and get a good rating. He has the most gold wins!   But on a good note both shooters and bikers have websites like this one to find out the truth!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 00:58
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I cant believe nobody brought this one PLAYBOY!!! lol sorry its getting late
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 05:46
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My buddy, John ( at the Gun Store ) has a cardboard box sitting on the glass counter near the door with a bunch of old magazines in it. It says: FREE  Take One    He has got all kinds of stuff in there that he gets out of his basement and his mother's basement.  I have grabbed American Rifleman from 1948 and the 50s and 60s, etc.  He had a Sporting Classics in there a month ago from 2005.  I grabbed it.  Real fancy shotgun ads in there.  I could book a shoot in Portugal from the ads in that book!! 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 08:15
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little do you realize Rancid that they will probably still send you a few even though your script is dead. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 08:41
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Originally posted by shockey shockey wrote:

Soldier of fortune... not quite a guns and ammo style mag but I enjoy it.  might be worth checking out if you've yet to read one?
He could write  that one himself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 10:37
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Jeff
Great commentary. My doctor, who has a 25 yd range in his "basement ", subscribes to g&a... keeps it in the waiting room. At my last visit. we discussed exactly what you. Just pointed out. He is ending a 12 year subscription.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 11:08
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Have to agree with you RC.  I like rifle shooter better.  Honestly, I just come here to the OT for the best knowledge and opinions on scopes, rifles, and gear.  If I read, it is usually on helicopters and flying.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 11:33
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Try SWAT magazine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 16:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 21:15
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Am taking recommendations for a new subscription.




Personally, I don't think you'll be happy with any of them.  I like Rifle and Rifle Shooter the best, but they too aren't immune to the fluff.  What you describe is pretty common fare in virtually all firearms magazines I read.  I don't subscribe to any of them anymore; I just buy one or two in the grocery store every now and then when I see an article I'm interested in.

Just keep in mind that almost all magazines rely on advertising $ for their existence, so they can't piss off their advertisers too much and expect to continue selling ads.  I'd imagine it's pretty difficult being a gun writer these days, where maintaining your journalistic integrity may come in conflict with keeping your job.  So, in order to try to do both, you have no choice but to try to say something nice about the product and not say everything you dislike about it.

Then, there's the subjective stuff.  You mention Leupold and Kimber.  Although you feel quality has slipped at both companies, that is not a widely held absolute.  In some respects, such as the new VX3 scopes, and some of Kimber's rifles, I personally believe the opposite is true.  So, the writers may be honestly reporting favorable reviews of these products, and other reasonable people may disagree.  True, Counter Sniper is one product that most savvy shooters will agree is at best highly overrated and at worst pure crap, but it's really the exception rather than the rule.  Most other name brand products are decent for some purposes, even if they aren't the best value for $ spent.


Edited by RifleDude - January/30/2011 at 21:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 22:25
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I sure do like my 2 Kimber 45acp's, and my Kimber Super America 270wsm. I would purchase them again, especially the pistols as they fit me well and Im fairly accurate with them. Ive had no probs with any of them...Yeah they are spendy, especially the CDP II Compact.. I sure do dig 1911's  thoughHowdySee Ya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2011 at 06:42
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Am taking recommendations for a new subscription.


victoria secret, I never been disappointed and the reviews by Ed are always spot on.
.
.
What you describe in your rant RC is just an adjustment to your expectations.  When I get magazines I expect there to be BS and slanted reviews in the magazines.  I filter it out and search for the good articles, look for product announcements and pics.  Do I really value the reviews, just enough to get a small bit of starter data.  It's still a lot cheaper than buying them randomly from the newstands.  It is too bad they have become what they are now, whores to the advertisers with little to no accuracy. 


Edited by scooter65 - January/31/2011 at 06:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2011 at 22:54
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Kimbers, you show your friends at the gun club..... Glocks are what you show your enemies!   LOL!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2011 at 07:07
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

Kimbers, you show your friends at the gun club..... Glocks are what you show your enemies!   LOL!
Tell CFII thatWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2011 at 08:10
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Another vote for rifle shooter.  My Guns and Ammo just ran out too and won't be getting renewed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2011 at 08:49
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To clarify: I did not say Kimber handguns were crap.  I did say their quality has slipped a bit and their price has continued to rise (same with Leupold optics.)  I own several Kimbers and have had mostly good things to say of them. (One had problems feeding, smith had to move the mag catch up a wee bit and clean up the throat and feed ramp, now it will cycle a mag of empty cases.)

I think I'll try Rifle Shooter.

And this isn't about my hating advertising, it is entirely about paying for a magazine that evaluates gear based on something other than the performance of the gear.

Maybe I should start my own magazine.


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