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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2011 at 21:08
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Hello, New to the board but not new to hunting.

 Bought an AR in .223 and it has no sights or glass on it.

It will be used for predator hunting in low light (dusk, dawn and kill light) and it will be used for plinking, targets (2 litter bottles), etc as well out to 50-600 yds using 50-75 gr

I’ve been using scopes for about three years and I used the following manufactures and models:

Nikon- Prostaff 3-9x40 and Monarch UCC 3-9x40

Bushnell- Banner 3-9x32, 3200 and 4200 Elites

I was looking at the M-223 but there seems to be a problem with the turrets turning while in transit.

So I was looking at getting an Mark AR or Mark 2, but don’t know anything about Leupold.

I need assistance with hold over, but I never used BDC or Mil dot and not sure if that will be better or just dial in distance using the turrets.

I do understand that weather, barrel length, etc effects everything but just don’t have experience with BDC, Mil dots, or turning turrets and understand that range time will be a must.

Also thinking about buying an AR 10 in .308 so I may be using the scope on that as well.

 

Budget for glass and mount is $650 .00 so what do you recommend?

 

Would like the following features, if possible:

Repeatability, Monarch/4200 level of clarity or better, weight of scope 16 oz or less, and customer support

 Any input is greatly appreciated.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2011 at 23:38
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SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Quad
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95 
 
SWFA S.S.A.L.T. 30mm Scope Mount SWFA S.S.A.L.T. 30mm Scope Mount
Stock # - SS30HSSALT
  • Picatinny MIL-STD-1913
  • Matte
  • Comes with 1" Inserts
$59.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/09/2011 at 23:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2011 at 23:49
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The problem you will have with most scopes is they do not have enough internal adjustment not so with the Super Snipers, The Sightron S III scopes, and Leupold Mk 4 scopes and some of the really expensive ones.   Most guys could get by with something like a fixed 6x42 Leupold FX3 with long range duplex but ir you want to shoot different loads and work at longer distances you need to be dialing in correction not guessing with a balistic reticle.  Any marks within the reticle can be used for known hold over if you know what they represent.  With the scope I suggested the marks are in MIL  s  so you will need to understand how that relates to the world around you as a measuring system.  You will need to learn this is where you start.  You can use a balistic calculator to determine drop in mil or in MOA or in inches etc each is a measuring system  http://www.mildot.com/       http://www.mil-dot.com/
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi 
Mil-Dot Master Mil-Dot Master
Stock # - MD1
  • Estimating Target Size
  • Determining Range to Target
  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
  • Correcting for Uphill/Downhill
  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
$29.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/09/2011 at 23:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2011 at 09:00
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+1 for the SS 3-9 on your AR.  Am running the Mil-Quad model on my S&W MP15 and it's a sweet set up.  No regrets, I'd buy another one if I needed it.
 
The reticle and the turrets allow you to either hold over or dial in, giving you the choice/option to do either as your needs desires dictate.  Another plus with a mil reticle is that you can figure out hold overs for different bullet weights and apply accordingly, where as a BDC reticle is usually for one bullet weight.
 
As was mentioned above, a good QD mount is nice if you also plan on having flip up sights.  I happen to favor GG&G, but there are plenty of great brands out there.  Aadland mounts make a really heavy duty 20 moa base that is built like a tank and can be quickly mounted or taken off.  This isn't a QD mount in the true sense of the word, but it's reportedly very repeatable and did I mention built like a tank?
Aadland AR 30mm Scope Mount Aadland AR 30mm Scope Mount
Stock # - AAD3020
  • 20 MOA
  • CNC Machined from 6061-T6 Billet Aluminum
  • Four Integral Recoil Lugs
  • Type III Hardcoat Anodize
  • Matte Finish
  • Lifetime Warranty
  • Made In USA
$199.95 < id=ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl01_Price_VS value=5KLoM4QwlpkG1whilVV7G9lDzl+xY+XGHasrym8yaAstJbJVGmehnL2vKFA36dj/ = name=ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl01$Price$VS>
Add to Wishlist< id=ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl01_Add2Wishlist_VS value=/bpILp+OPzzDml26vGjnI9ziiTM2De1FywKdGyJK7XDEZLPkrXNSus12Znc4i5Ad = name=ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl01$Add2Wishlist$VS>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2011 at 09:01
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Here is a link to a group buy on the SS 3-9 w/mil-dot. If you want the new mil quad reticle however this kit will not apply.

Links to KIT6 components:
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope
BOBRO Low, Slightly Forward
SWFA SS Kill-Flash (ARD)
Butler Creek Eye Cover
Butler Creek Objective Cover
SWFA SS 42mm Sun Shade
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Edited by Chris Farris II - August/10/2011 at 13:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2011 at 14:07
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+1 for the Kit.a great deal with all great goodies.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 13:17
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Will the POI (bullet) shift between magnifications ?

Tell me about the clarity of the glass.
 
Is there something about the ss that you don't like ?
 
 
I can wait and save for a better scope, if needed
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 13:29
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NO POI shift, clairty is better IMO than the zeiss conquest glass, nothing I don't like, would I like other features? sure illumination, adjustable parallax, sure in due time I'm sure.
 
You'd have to save a lot more to get better than the SS will deliver for its price.  I'd put it head to head against the scopes costing hundreds more and it would still hold its own
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 14:30
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

Will the POI (bullet) shift between magnifications ? No because it is First Focal Plane

Tell me about the clarity of the glass. It has been compared to or rated better than a few well respected optics like Nightforce and like SVT said the Zeiss Conquest.
 
Is there something about the ss that you don't like ? Depends on the inteded use.
 
 
I can wait and save for a better scope, if needed. You would have to pay upwards of $1,000 to get a scope that will out perform this one.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 18:56
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+1 for the SWFA kits
 
the $599 3-9 kit
 
or
 
the $799 1-4 kit
 
both are a steal with the Bobro mount, great mount and the FFP is a huge plus.  I have both and they flat WORK.  Either will suit your needs - select depending on magnification needs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 19:03
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The deal just sounds to good to be true so I’m a little nervous.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 19:09
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

The deal just sounds to good to be true so I’m a little nervous.

depending on the application ... if your gonna be shooting 500 yards and in and aren't trying to shoot MOA groups ... the 1-4 kit would be my choice.  Now if your gonna be trying to put pretty little groups on paper the 3-9 would be the way to go.
 
The kits are a GREAT DEAL ... you won't be dissapointed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2011 at 22:25
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

The deal just sounds to good to be true so I’m a little nervous.



The SS scopes are heads and tails above what you listed for choices.

Do a search on SS scopes here at Opticstalk to see what other have to say about them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 07:05
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One thing for sure, the 3-9x42 is built like a tank which I think is great for tactical or bench, but since I’m a hunter, it’s a little on the heavy (even with the 30mm tube) side for not having a side focus, higher magnification, or electronics.

 

Thanks for all the replies and information.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 07:46
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

One thing for sure, the 3-9x42 is built like a tank which I think is great for tactical or bench, but since I’m a hunter, it’s a little on the heavy (even with the 30mm tube) side for not having a side focus, higher magnification, or electronics.
Thanks for all the replies and information.
   OK
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Mil-Quad
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,499.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 07:50
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

One thing for sure, the 3-9x42 is built like a tank which I think is great for tactical or bench, but since I’m a hunter, it’s a little on the heavy (even with the 30mm tube) side for not having a side focus, higher magnification, or electronics.
Thanks for all the replies and information.
So Do you want a hunting scope?
Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Riflescope Long Range Duplex Leupold 6x42 FX-3 Riflescope
Stock # - LEU66820
  • Matte
  • Long Range Duplex
  • 1"
  • Xtended Twilight Lens System
$429.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 07:56
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

One thing for sure, the 3-9x42 is built like a tank which I think is great for tactical or bench, but since I’m a hunter, it’s a little on the heavy (even with the 30mm tube) side for not having a side focus, higher magnification, or electronics.
Thanks for all the replies and information.
Do you want something Light weight compact in a tactical optic?
Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Crosshair Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA50R4
  • Red Crosshair
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
$945.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 08:06
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I believe this will fit me best:

 Trijicon, TR20-2: AccuPoint 3-9x40 Riflescope, Mil-Dot Crosshair with Amber Do with a LaRue LT 104 mount.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 08:23
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

Hello, ....It will be used for predator hunting in low light (dusk, dawn and kill light) and it will be used for plinking, targets (2 litter bottles), etc as well out to 50-600 yds using 50-75 gr

...Budget for glass and mount is $650 .00 so what do you recommend?

 Would like the following features, if possible:  Repeatability, Monarch/4200 level of clarity or better, weight of scope 16 oz or less, and customer support...

Level ONE wishes
predator hunting in low light = must adjust to 6x42 to achieve a 7mm exit eye pupil to be bright in low light
out to 50-600 yds = must have either tactical knobs or a balistic reticle
(likely possible scopes
SS 3-9 new $599.95
Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z used
SPL13516 Zeiss 3.5-10x44 Conquest Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 5214209972, Matte, Rapid Z 800, 1"
$599.95
SPL12851 Zeiss 4.5-14x44 Conquest Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 5214349972, Silver, Rapid Z 800
$699.95
Leupold VX3 or Mk4 used)
SPL14170 Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T Rifle Scope DEMO-C
Click to view 60015, Matte, Illuminated TMR, 30mm
$999.95
SPL13956 Leupold 3.5-10x50 VX-L Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 64185, Matte, Illuminated B&C, 30mm
$599.95
 
Level TWO wishes
Repeatability  Check
clarity Check
weight of scope 16 oz or less Laughout to 50-600 yds LaughSo 19 oz is too heavy? Roll on Floor Laughing
customer support.  Check
 
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Quad
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 08:51
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

I believe this will fit me best:

 Trijicon, TR20-2: AccuPoint 3-9x40 Riflescope, Mil-Dot Crosshair with Amber Do with a LaRue LT 104 mount.

The mount is correct the up side to the scope is the illumination.  This reticle choice may allow you to use the mildots as hold over marks with sufficient practice however it will be rather a rough process at longer distances. Tactical knobs make the process much more precise and the Trijicon 5-20x50 has 1/4 moa tactical knobs.  Note: the mildot reticle does not work with the Bindon Aiming Concept like the other trijicon reticles according to Trijicon. The post model guides the eye onto the the target like the ACOG. There is also a size advantage to the 1-4 Accupoint that makes it very popular for 3 gun and since neither has tactical knobs they really are only good to a bit over 300 yds past that you must have either tactical knobs (prefered) or a balistic reticle.
If you really do want to shoot precisely at 300 to 600 yds you really should consider the 5-20 due to its's tactical knobs.
Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Mil-Dot Crosshair w/ Green Dot Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR232G
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot Crosshair w/ Green Dot
  • 30mm
  • Free Sun Shade w/ Purchase
$1,082.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/13/2011 at 09:00
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 09:14
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

[QUOTE=EAGLE]

I believe this will fit me best:

 Trijicon, TR20-2: AccuPoint 3-9x40 Riflescope, Mil-Dot Crosshair with Amber Do with a LaRue LT 104 mount.

The mount is correct the up side to the scope is the illumination.  This reticle choice may allow you to use the mildots as hold over marks with sufficient practice however it will be rather a rough process at longer distances. Tactical knobs make the process much more precise and the Trijicon 5-20x50 has 1/4 moa tactical knobs.  Note: the mildot reticle does not work with the Bindon Aiming Concept like the other trijicon reticles according to Trijicon. The post model guides the eye onto the the target like the ACOG. There is also a size advantage to the 1-4 Accupoint that makes it very popular for 3 gun and since neither has tactical knobs they really are only good to a bit over 300 yds past that you must have either tactical knobs (prefered) or a balistic reticle.
If you really do want to shoot precisely at 300 to 600 yds and you want an Accupoint you really should consider the 5-20 due to its's tactical knobs.
Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope Mil-Dot Crosshair w/ Green Dot Trijicon 5-20x50 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR232G
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot Crosshair w/ Green Dot
  • 30mm
  • Free Sun Shade w/ Purchase
$1,082.95
I have one of these and I like the scope a lot but it is also a bit large for most AR rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 09:20
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You made some good points and I'll try the SS Chair Hit 

 
After looking through a few Trijicon's and having Trituim sights (bead/iron) on several guns, I've gotta have a TrijiconBig Grin so it looks like I'll be in the dogs house with the wife since I'm buying two scope, but my arguement will be that I have a learning curbWhacko
 
 
The Trijicon's will be used for 300yds or less in the woods in low light conditions. It's will be used on different rifles and the AR as well. so IYO, which one might be best suited for this.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2011 at 09:24
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It seems you posted while I was typing and already answered my questions.

 
 
Thanks,
 
EAGLE
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If I were to have two scopes I would go with one that was tactical knobs in a 5-20x50 if I could afford that and the second would be an illuminated lower power probably the 3x compact ACOG but the 1-4 accupoint is also a fine choice.  I have had several of the Accupoints and for some reason I really like the other models better than the 3-9 in fact about the only 3-9 scope made by any company that I really like is the Super Sniper and that is due to the options that it has that most scopes do not have since it is FFP first focal plane the mil based reticle remains the same at all powers so one can use it for range finding or holdover or can input correction like 3.4 mils by dialing four clicks and holding on the 3rd mil mark down from center rather than dialing 34 clicks to get 3.4 mils.  Having the reticle and the clicks both be mil based makes it very easy to make corrections. You aim center of target shoot a hole measure using the reticle how high or low and how far left or right and then dial in correction in the same incremental units with the knobs - it's a wonderful system.  I also very much like the accupoint scopes as the illumination system is the best bar none. The 5-20 Accupoint is limited in that it only has 50 moa of internal adjustment so half up is 25 inches up at 100 yds. The 5-20 Accupoint is also mil dot or post reticle and I rather prefer the post having had both.  The clicks are 1/4moa per click so one click at 100 yds will move point of impact 1/4 inch.  Important to know that 1 moa is 1 inch at 100 but 1moa is 2 inches at 200 and 1moa is 3 inches at 300 so on 1moa is 10 inches at 1000 so !/4 moa click at 1000 yds moves the point of impact 1/4 of 10 inches or 2.5 inches per click.
With a mil based system one mil at 100 yds is 3.6 inches and one mil at 1000 yds is 36 inches and one mil at 1000 meters is one meter so at 1000 meters 1/10 mil click moves point of impact 1/10 of one meter or ten centimeters.  500 meters of course would be half of that so one click at 500 meters would move point of impact 5 centimeters.  Once you get your head wrapped around the idea that both systems work but  1/4 moa moves about 1/4 inch at 100 and 1/10 mil ( 1/10 of 3.6 in) moves point of impact about 1/3 inch  (.36 inches) per click the systems make more sense and you can dicide which you prefer.
Good Luck
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Since I’ve never used a scope in the first focal plane, I have another question

Since the reticle is not illuminated, and if I decided to hunt in a wooded area with brush and had to set the magnification on 3 would I still be able to see the reticle without straining. Basically will I lose the reticle in the contrast in low light conditions even with good glass and 95% light transmission?

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