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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 20:34
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Ever wonder how people feel that the clarity of glass between scope lines compares?

My goal here is to try and create a anecdotal ranking to help people make better informed decisions, I would like to hear from people who have used these scopes so that we can be as realistic as possible, Please rank the scopes you have used as to their visual clarity as a whole, and to make it a little easier, on a 1-10 scale graduated in .25 points. 

Feel free to add scope lines where you see fit, Rank them in order if you like or just assign a clarity value.
I tried to compile a list of the most commonly asked about scopes and tried to include a wide price range so that people who may have been able to look through a couple of the lower end scopes could get an idea of what they are missing.
I will come back through and try to compile everyones responses in to a spreadsheet and then post back the results after 30 days or once I can get a good number of responses

SS
SS HD
SS Variable
Bushnell 3200
Bushnell 4200
Zeiss Conquest
Zeiss Hensoldt
Pride & Fowler RR600
IOR Tactical
USO
Nightforce
Lupold Mk4
Lupold VX III
Nikon Monarch X
Weaver Tactical
Trijicon Accupoint
Swarovski Z3
Swarovski Z5
Vortex Viper
Vortex Razer
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 22:17
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Space Weazel,

This will be great info, especially if you get a lot of feedback from experienced peeps.
B
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 10:18
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I gotta mention that a scope is the sum of all its parts, design and construction. Also consider that there are different scopes that will work well for one person or a rifle and its application(s) but maybe not for someone else or even across two different rifles. Even among top line scopes (of which only the Hensoldt is mentioned here...also S&B and Premier) where the glass is basically the same you have differences like the Hensoldt's very forgiving eye relief. On that subject, some scopes that have very good glass have noticeable tunneling at lower magnification or unreliable turrets. Others have drawbacks like weighing a ton.

What kind of shooting do you do? What's your budget? If you really get to thinking about it, it's always better to work from your goals back into the specs of various optics to see which will be the best fit rather than starting with one facet of a scope. You can't separate the application or the whole scope from the equation.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 10:45
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Sorry SW, I cannot in conscience contribute to this.  I just don't think it  is worthwhile. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 11:12
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Hensoldt - 10










BSA,  Countersniper, NC Star - 0


There was a similar endeavor in 2010 and 2009, everyone disagreed with everyone else, it didn't go particularly well.

The most knowledgeable folk aren't going to contribute much (probably) - due to the complexity of the answer and the simplicity of the question.

My advice: find an optics expert with no ax to grind, read his/her reviews, act accordingly.


Or put a Hensoldt on everything and call it a day.

Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 11:34
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space_weazel,

Since I thoroughly enjoy comparing optics, I can give an objective view of the scopes I have for clearness. After looking through them at various ranges on many occasions at line charts or printed words, I have found the following rankings for day light use. There is a fun revelation I discovered: Even the Tascos are plenty good for normal day light hunting.

10 - NightForce 12-42X56

9 - Bushnell 6500 4 /12-30X50

9 - Swarovski z5 5-25X52

8 - Weaver 6-24X40

8 - Leupold VX-III 6 1/2-20X50

8 - Bushnell 4200 6-24X40

7 - Sightron II 3-15X40

6 - Pentax Game Seeker 4-16X50

6 - Tasco World Class 4-16X40

6 - Tasco 2 1/2-10X40

If we include low light use, the Nightforce is still number one, but the Swarovski jumps to number two.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 13:00
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Exactly what "objective" measurement devices/measures were used in the "comparison" you made, Rich? 
Any comparison made with human eyes, experiences, knowledge is SUBJECTIVE by its very nature. 
I will not attempt explain to you what would be required to perform an objective assessment.
 
Reason is NOT automatic...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 14:23
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Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.



Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 14:30
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Hensoldt - 10










BSA,  Countersniper, NC Star - 0


There was a similar endeavor in 2010 and 2009, everyone disagreed with everyone else, it didn't go particularly well.

The most knowledgeable folk aren't going to contribute much (probably) - due to the complexity of the answer and the simplicity of the question.

My advice: find an optics expert with no ax to grind, read his/her reviews, act accordingly.


Or put a Hensoldt on everything and call it a day.



My S&B ain't half-bad either! LOL
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:01
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.

So does he.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:08
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Laugh Above
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:40
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Exactly what "objective" measurement devices/measures were used in the "comparison" you made, Rich? 
Any comparison made with human eyes, experiences, knowledge is SUBJECTIVE by its very nature. 

I will not attempt explain to you what would be required to perform an objective assessment.

 

Reason is NOT automatic...


By objective, I mean the optics are not pointed at a bush or a tree. when I did that the Bushnell looked as good as the Nightforce; which it is not by a long stretch. By using a line chart of some kind, I am able to repeat the test and get the same results without looking at the brand of the scope.

I have a few hunting buddies who come to the same conclusion about the optics that I do. After all, the original poster did post something about anicdotal.

I hope that helps understand what I am saying.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:42
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.


I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:00
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Conjecture statistics do not address the truthfulness of the statement, just the probability that the next answer will be within a range of the given Null Hypothesis. Your test would be meaningless. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:40
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What it boils down to, every-bodies eyes are a bit different. Especially when it comes to subject of something as vague as "clarity". There are some very well written reports on most of the scopes mentioned, but they all come down to one man's opinion of one sample of that particular scope. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:57
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

What it boils down to, every-bodies eyes are a bit different. Especially when it comes to subject of something as vague as "clarity". There are some very well written reports on most of the scopes mentioned, but they all come down to one man's opinion of one sample of that particular scope. 


Perfect asessment of reports, no matter who does it. To me getting a bunch of guys together and comparing notes while looking at the same target item through the same scopes tells us potential buyers more than a leb test.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 17:04
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Not necessarily. If the viewing was done as a blind test, then maybe... The power of persuasion is indeed powerful. Especially when it comes to things like brand recognition.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 18:08
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Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.


I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me?


I was trying to add some humor to the thread.


Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 18:36
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The conjecture statistic changes with the group sampled.
Ask which scope would make the best hunting scope for around $500 on 23 1/2 campfire and you could predict within 80% (maybe higher) the answer would be Leo. Same question here would probably at 80% might be something like conquest. Nether answer has "truth" just the statistic that group would pick a certain model or brand. Useless.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 19:55
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

The conjecture statistic changes with the group sampled.
Ask which scope would make the best hunting scope for around $500 on 23 1/2 campfire and you could predict within 80% (maybe higher) the answer would be Leo. Same question here would probably at 80% might be something like conquest. Nether answer has "truth" just the statistic that group would pick a certain model or brand. Useless.


This makes perfect sence. That's why you get a group of shooters and a group of optics and have them all look through them till each person decides which they like best.

There used to be a guy on 24hour who had three guys doing his tests. Alas there was so much animosity that he left.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 20:24
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I did not mean to chuck rocks at a hornets nest, I was trying to only focus on perceived (read: subjective/anecdotal) glass clarity, this was not intended to say "x" scope is better than all others at everything, simply to add a single rubric, of a general consensus, to one part of choosing a scope, I picked this one because it's a aspect of scope buying that one can not easily compare with out hands on experience.

Any one can look at their needs and wants and weigh FFP vs. 2nd FP, Mil/Mil vs. Mil/Moa vs. Moa/Moa, knobs vs. not, ect.... but how does it look? Is an often asked question, rarely with a satisfying answer I was hoping that the vast amount of knowledge here could provide at the very least a starting point for people who have decided on their features or the ones they are willing to compromise on and have narrowed what is usually a large purchase down to a few options and need that last advice on which option will edge out the others given their choices.

Since there are scopes at common price ranges that seem to vary quite a bit in quality or otherwise. There are a lot of scopes that run about a $1000, but where some have lots more features at the cost of glass quality as one example.

If this is all hopeless, I'll just take my sh*tty cookies and head home....
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 20:30
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.


I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me?


I was trying to add some humor to the thread.




Thunbs Up
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 20:42
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:


Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:


Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Rich,

I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.


I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me?


I was trying to add some humor to the thread.


Thunbs Up


Are there no "humor" sites on the web? I found this site by googling "optics". Some of the folks here are actually interested in optics.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 20:44
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On your list, I like the Swaro and high end Zeiss for hunting. Next up would be the variable SS, Conquest & V3. This would be followed by 4200 & Monarch.
The other high end optics like IOR, Nightforce and Trijicon I have no experience with.


Edited by tahqua - June/12/2011 at 20:44
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 21:11
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Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

Are there no "humor" sites on the web? I found this site by googling "optics". Some of the folks here are actually interested in optics.


Holy crap Rich!

Take it easy!

I read all of your wild posts that are almost exclusively about how "clear" some scopes compare to others.  When I saw the title of this thread I thought, I wonder how long before Rich Coyle posts on this thread.  And bam ... there you were.

I thought it was kind of funny.  You can take it how you want.

For the record:  I love the humor on the OT.  I fully admit I am not that funny, but I enjoy trying.  And I am deeply interested in optics, actually.

Smile
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