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Scope opinions for a 300 WM |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Meopta is a nice scope, but it is not in the same league with the Magnus, Z8, etc.
Also, a lot of people are not excited with AO instead of side focus for this kind of money. ILya
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Since you mentioned whiskey, keep in mind, I'll be around in November. ILya
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Hey Jeff--
First, I would be honored to sit down and share some whiskey with you anytime, friend. The point you make about greater choices offered by another action being irrelevant as long as you are very happy with the choices available for the Tikka is a very valid one. Whatever works for you...rock on; you don't have to justify your preferences to anyone. However, keep in mind that you held up the Tikka action as the best choice as the basis for a full custom rifle for someone else who likely isn't a clone of you. This may very well work out if the person you're recommending it to has all the same preferences as you do and is perfectly happy with the accessory options available for Tikka. But what if that person has an entirely different idea than you on what makes a good custom rifle? The thing is - and this is an inescapable fact - a custom action having Remington 700 inlet dimensions and Remington 700 trigger mounting dimensions opens the entire world of options to you that simply isn't on the table when using a Tikka action as the foundation for a custom rifle. If the person in question who is planning to build a custom rifle has different tastes than you, his build component options are greatly limited with a Tikka. Any stock style available on planet Earth, including the very same styles you prefer for your Tikkas, is available for a Rem 700 footprint custom action. Though the Tikka trigger is pretty good, triggers from every major aftermarket trigger manufacturer are likewise available for a Rem footprint custom action. Even if one wanted an entirely hand made custom wood stock, a Remington style footprint action is one of the easiest to create, best designed inlets available. It has ample bedding surface, it is geometrically simple, the radiused bottom is self-centering and repeatable when removed and replaced from the stock, and there are no sharp corners or other features that require the inletting to have thin cross-sections or stress risers where cracks in the stock can propagate under repeated recoil loads. In the past 6 months, I've built 6 custom rifles -- 2 used McMillan Game Warden stocks, 1 used a McMillan A5, 2 used different chassis, and 1 used a Brown Precision "Pound'r" Kevlar stock. Three entirely different custom actions were represented, each having different components. The one thing they all had in common is they share mounting dimensions with Rem 700, despite having radically different stocks. There is never a downside to more options and fewer concessions. To your scope mount design point, you keep referencing the Remington 700 for your comparison, which is kind of a straw man, since I was only talking about custom actions exclusively. When considering a Tikka action for the basis of a custom rifle and comparing it to the full gamut of available custom actions, the Tikka comes up short on mount interface design in almost every case. Is the Tikka mounting system superior to this Defiance Deviant Tactical, with its integral 20MOA pic rail? Would you consider that action lacking in rigidity? How about this Defiance Deviant Ultralight, with its 2- section 20 MOA integral pic mount seats? Is the Tikka system superior to this? Even the custom actions using a Remington-esque 4-screw mount interface are superior to the Tikka system. Custom actions don't have the mount screw and mount surface misalignment problem that sometimes plagues a Rem 700. Dimensional precision throughout is one of the reasons for selecting a custom action in the first place. The Tikka mounting system requires you to either use the shallow grooves in the receiver, which limits your selection of mounts, or to use the threaded holes on the top of a flat surface. Threaded holes on a flat surface is an inferior mount design vs. threaded holes on a radiused surface. The former depends solely on the screws for axial alignment, while the latter has a radius to aid the screw holes in aligning the bases in the same axis. To your "long range" point, again, I never made or implied such limitations. Curiously, those very same bullet designs cited that excel at LR also work well at spitting distance. A high BC bullet still offers some advantage in drop and drift at moderate distance, and "heavy for caliber" bullets offer greater penetration at short distance due to greater momentum and higher sectional density. Besides recoil considerations, how is having better performance at any shot distance ever a disadvantage, even if you never use its full potential? Consider this: this is a photo of a dummy round I used to setup my seating die for a .300 Win I built for my brother. The load chosen used the Hornady 200 gr. ELD-X. This rifle showed best precision when COAL was at 3.463", or about .005" off the lands. This round will feed from the mag box on any Rem footprint custom action. If I was using a Tikka action on this build, this round simply would not function in the magazine, as it's about 1/8" too long... In order for this bullet to function in .300 Win Mag in a Tikka action, I would have to seat the bullet for a COAL of 3.34", which looks like the round on the right, in comparison to the above dummy round on the left: Note that there's basically only ogive protruding beyond the case neck on the 3.34" COAL load on the right. This means that it's impossible for the bullet's bearing surface to come anywhere close to the lands and still feed from a Tikka LA magazine in a rifle chambered for .300 Win Mag. It's impossible for any high BC bullet to be seated out close to or touching the lands, which is where you will obtain your best precision. For that matter, it's highly unlikely you will be able to seat any bullet out to the lands with such a limitation. Your rifle may still shoot very well, but why limit your options? Even if the action otherwise had an endless set of virtues, this is a show-stopper for me. It's a very bad concession to have to make on a custom rifle where you're intentionally trying to avoid compromises. Why would anyone voluntarily choose to strangle the potential performance of their custom rifle if they have other options? It's always better for your chamber throat to be the limiting factor on how long your COAL can be rather than the magazine box length. What if your chosen bullet that shoots well in your rifle is discontinued by the manufacturer? What if you decide to extend your effective range? Having more options available to you is never a bad plan, even if you don't exploit those options now. You may wish you had those options later. Yes, you could always use the Atlasworxs bottom metal for Tikka, which allows you to use AI mags and increase your COAL to 3.7". But by the time you Band-Aid the Tikka to compensate for its shortcomings, you're losing the economic argument for building off a Tikka, and you still don't eliminate the other concessions mentioned. Is anything I said above untrue? If we're making recommendations for building a custom rifle, isn't it entirely appropriate to mention the known disadvantages to using a given component of the build in the interest of providing the best possible advice?
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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For a custom rifle, I wouldn't either. But having Remington stock inlet dimensions and a Remington style 2-pin trigger mount doesn't suck when you have the greatest possible selection of stocks and triggers available to you. Every major custom action manufacturer offers at least one action with Remington footprint dimensions, allowing you to reap the benefits of the widest possible variety of component options without having a single part manufactured by Remington.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Ted, just outstanding analysis... you just made me start rethinking a whole process I've been rethinking for a while now. Double-edged sword. I had just about made a decision... now, I'm starting over. You made me consider some things I had taken for granted. Great stuff Just a point, though... I am extremely happy with my Stiller TAC338 action. |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Back to the point of the thread... I have a US Optics 3.7-17 with MDMOA reticle on NEMO Omen Recon 300WM rifle... I used it to hunt an axis gold medal a few years back (heavy work schedule has prevented me hunting in a WHILE, so no more recent). It is an excellent scope for hunting. The mil reticle is excellent as well. I sometimes wish I had gotten a HORUS reticle in it. There is nothing I don't like about the scope. The graduations are right on, adjustments are accurate, audible, tactile... I have no complaints. Just something to consider. |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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