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Scope to Portugal

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martin3175 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martin3175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2010 at 09:15
I lived in South Africa for a year , and yes we got ridiculed for Vietnam etc  by some folks ,and when I mentioned RSA's involvement in Rhodesia ,etc .. I was hit with near violent outbursts that they were right to do so because....well, just because ...
Not by everybody , but by a minority -- albeit very vocal though.. but most folks figured it was none of their concern..
 
As far as selling / shipping scopes overseas .. it is what it is .. If SWFA can and wants to ship them -- fine ..but if they don't ...well then they don't - It's their business and the choice is theirs --pure and simple
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 19:06
There is a genuine problem with high tech items and tactical rifles and tactical scopes being sold in the U.S. and within a matter of weeks being resold at huge profits and winding up in action against U.S. Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.  There is particularly a problem regarding 50 BMG rifles and if you deal in or buy a 50 BMG right now you become a person of interest to investigative federal agencies.   U. S. sources refusing to sell tactical gear overseas is simply being responsible.  I'd rather you have hurt feelings and not like us than have my soldiers killed because there is no way for us to know what kind of person you are and there are a lot of people with no conscience looking to make a profit any way they can - so knock off  the -- offended cry baby attitude, and realize there is more at stake than your pleasure.

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
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Tranan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tranan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2010 at 17:53
I am not speaking about rifles, fire guns or stuff like that. I just find weird that SWFA and other companies cannot ship rifle scopes such as Bushnell, Leupold, Zeiss, Vortex, Trijicon, Swarovski, Weaver etc etc to other countries. Not even to allied NATO-countries.
I am not speaking about any nuclear bomb, but about rifle scopes that fill the shelves of all European, Asian, African, Australian and South-American hunting stores. So whatever terrorist wants to use a Trijicon to shoot at Americans in Afghanistan or Irak, would have no problem in purchasing these scopes legally in any other part of the world. He would have to pay some extra dollars but that is not an issue for these guys.

It is however an issue for a regular Portuguese, French, British or Polish hunter who'd have to pay three times the price of an Elite 3200.  This is what I am talking about. You do not need to get patriotic about it as it has nothing to do with it.

Now, my point was that, considering the fact that there are many American firms who already legally export these scopes, after purchasing the necessary licenses, it is a pity that  SWFA, which has good prices and good renown, chose not to do it on the bases of credit card frauds, which are quite easy to detect or prevent.

Or, let me put it the other way around:
If you, as American hunters, would find out that you could purchase the same rifle scopes you have in America, in Europe for 1/3 of the price, taxes included, and would want to save some bucks and buy them here, would the Europeans be unpatriotic if they sold them to you? I guess you would find that as being quite bizarre, wouldn't you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2010 at 19:52
nope not bizarre at all. Its a tax and hassle thing.  Not only are foreign companies the #1 sourse of CC fraud in the US, doing all the paper work that is required to send scopes over seas wouldn't be worth the headache for SWFA.  Most credit card companies will not "protect" a merchant in the US from a foreign based card, visa included.  Why should they worry with it?  I really hate that the prices on things like this are so much in other countries but its your governments to blame not SWFA.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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cyborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2010 at 23:08
Plus again it is a tax avoidance problem from your Countries perspective. By the time it could be legalized to ship it to you, it would cost the same as if you bought it there anyways.
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Tranan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tranan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 07:18
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

Plus again it is a tax avoidance problem from your Countries perspective. By the time it could be legalized to ship it to you, it would cost the same as if you bought it there anyways.


It would not cost that much at all.
There are American companies which many Europeans legally purchase items from. They either do credit card checks, use PayPal as payment methods or bank wire. It works perfectly.
Even after adding all the extra costs, such as custom fees, VAT and shipping, many of the items are still half the price they are in Europe.
To file for a license at the US Department of Commerce does not cost anything and it takes about 2 weeks to get it, and most of the European buyers will not have anything against waiting the extra time.

It is true, that many of the European governments are sick, and just as sick are the firms who raise the prices to unnecessarily high levels. Many of the  brands use the high level of European pricing by trying to increase their huge profits. I have great respect and admiration for those US companies who agree not consider the European hunters as terrorists and make it easy for them to avoid having to pay €600 for an Elite 3200 3-9x40.

Of course, SWFA and other companies, have the right to refuse exporting, but my point is that they are missing out on big profits as the buyers will just turn to other more flexible companies.
CHARLIE DON'T SURF!
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stickbow46 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 08:10
I want to thank all the NATO allies for helping us fight terrorism,you people are anything but second rate,I applaud you & say Thanks.
 
This subject is very sensitive to many of us as we have families serving in the sand box,as do you.Remember they will also be shooting at your families as well.
 
The higher prices are as said above mostly government & greed.I thank SWFA for looking out for all our interest.It seems the problem comes from not knowing if the person wanting the scope is a hunter or just a bad character in it for no good.
 
SWFA are not fools,they are in business to make money,so don't you think letting your sales go is a very tough decision?Who else has a cite that is not only free but educational,insitefull & just plain fun?
 
This to shall pass so try & be patient & remember we are all in it for the long hall.Lets stomp out the terrorist & get back on track with what's really important Hunting & Reloading.
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Tranan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tranan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 08:59
Thank you @stockbow46 for the appreciation. It is these kinds of broader views and understanding that might open up for a more flexible American international policy.

However, you also seem to be be missing out on the point that the terrorist can, without a problem, purchase these items anywhere in the world he might prefer: Germany, Sweden, France, Italy, Australia, Singapore, Hong-Kong, India, Argentina and even closer places such as Dubai (where, by the way, many European buyers have turned to in order to get cheap rifle scopes) etc. If he wants it he can get it just around the corner. They have the cash and it's no big deal.
Notice that I am not referring to Gen 3 or 4 NVs or thermal imaging or any other such stuff. I am referring to plain old rifle scopes, binoculars, mounts etc. Do not think that these items can only be found in the US! They are everywhere in the world and the only reason we Europeans want to purchase them with you guys is because of the price. That's all.
I have a supplier just 10 miles from where I live, but I am prepared to wait 1.5 month for the scope coming from the States than paying three times the price here.

It is not smart for the American companies to see the world as an enemy and refuse trading with it. That means plenty of lost profits, in a time when the American economy desperately needs it.
A problem in Europe is that scopes such as Leupold, Trijicon etc, come up almost to the same prices that you can get Zeiss, Karl-Kaps, Docter, Schmidt & Bender, Kahles, Nikel and at times even Swarovski not even discussing such brands as Meopta, Z-aim or IOR. That will ultimately mean that the American brands will start loosing ground to the European ones. Hawke and Nikko Stirling already compete heavily with the low budget American brands such as Elite 3200, Weaver, Leupold VX-I, VX-II, Burris Fulfilled.  I am afraid that American lack of flexibility on governmental and corporate levels, will hit back as a boomerang at the US economy.

And I am not a terrorist lover. I have close friends fighting in Afghanistan and George W. Bush was my favorite American presidentExcellent, period. But the world is so much bigger than Irak, Afghanistan and other similar retarded countries, and the majority of these countries are still on your side. Don't turn them against you!
CHARLIE DON'T SURF!
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cyborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 11:07
You know the shoe fits both feet don't you? I would also point out to you that there are several companies abroad that won't ship a European scope here. Yes there are instances where a scope can be purchased cheaper there than here. If not for the taxes and government greed associated with such a purchase. It isn't as much to do with the companies as you suggest. It is Governments, and their power seeking money grabbing ways that is the real culprit. Don't blame the companies, it isn't their faults, it is that they are being held hostage, and enterprise isn't free anymore. In a perfect world, free enterprise would reign supreme, and competition would settle the prices. That sadly is not the case. Think what you want to about it. Bottom line is that anyone in a European country that wants to point fingers at American businesses for not handling such overseas business, is missing the big picture. Take care of those in your Governments first, and all else will fall in line accordingly. We here in the good old USA are having a rough enough time trying to preserve our freedoms as it is.
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OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 11:18
Further more do you not also realize that there are several scopes that your (European)governments won't allow for sale there? SWFA and many others sell these scopes, and the amount of expense related to Government intrusion, and what not also makes such a venture problematic. Not to mention the liability should there be a mistake in a shipment. So while it may not be an issue with just your government alone, but more so that the vast majority of overseas shipments can be a nightmare making exclusive practices to one country vs the rest of them not a worthwhile venture. You gotta take care of your house first before you start ranting about that of your neighbors.
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 11:24
Oh and I agree with the firms charging more for the product as well. It is however a part of the enterprise system. Supply and demand. Still as I stated above, get rid of the hurdles, and Government intrusions, and oversights, and let the market bear out competitive practices, and every one will win in the end.
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tranan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 12:56
@cyborg, I think it is just as sick when a European company refuses to ship to the US as it is the other way around and by no means do I defend that.
As far as governments are concerned, I happen to live in a country that allows me without any problem to both export to whoever I want as well as import from whoever I want. I deeply appreciate that as being a modern and civilized way of doing business in a global situation.

My surprise though, came from the fact that SWFA, being such a well-known company, has not been able to finalize the license process necessary to be able to export products and the fact that they argue the credit card issue as being one of the reason. I respect the fact that they do not it as I believe in the absolute freedom of every dealer to have the liberty of selling to whomever he wants. But the same time it is a pity, as both prices as well the variety of products are very interesting for many hunters.

What do these hunters do instead? They choose to purchase the items from other American firms at probably a little higher prices but still much cheaper than at home. This way, SWFA misses out on big profits. It may be so that they do not care about the extra cash in which case I understand them but still....Really Sad
Do not forget that the power of the American economy has been the trading flexibility which you guys, on an early stage proved to have. It is sad when socialistic trading terms become acceptable over there as that kinda goes against everything the USA stands for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 13:01
I concur on the Socialistic thing. It is something we are fighting tooth and nail here. I see where other citizenships are fighting to regain that which we teeter on losing here. It is a shame. One which hopefully we can as a free society survive, and pass along the tenets of freedom that we enjoyed to our posterity.
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OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 13:02
Originally posted by Tranan Tranan wrote:

It is sad when socialistic trading terms become acceptable over there as that kinda goes against everything the USA stands for.


Socialist everything is becoming acceptable in our country.  They are destroying us from the inside out. 
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 16:18
Well put 73,Come November things will start to change,even the bleeding hearts have had it.The storm & tea party are on thier wayAmerican Flag
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