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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 19:07
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Well I've finally started getting into pistols.  So far I've found out I'm blind....  Need to visit the old eye doctor again!
Well I bought a S&W 422 22LR last week and after a thourough cleaning decided to check her out.
At the same time I decided to blow the dust off my Grandfathers WWII Remington Rand service 1911-A1 as well as his S&W Model 39 9mm.  The 9mm has got to have the world's sloppiest trigger being both a SA and DA.  Miles of creep and about a 6-7 lb pull in SA and more in DA.  The 1911 has been a safe queen for over 15 years! 
 
Well I had totally fortgotten how fun the 1911 is to shoot!  She has a surprisingly nice trigger that breaks at a about 4.5lbs and everyhting is still tight in the gun.
 
So a 22LR S&W Model 422 A S&W Model 39 9mm and a Remy Rand 1911-A1...all with different triggers.
Think I was asking for trouble? Loco


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/07/2012 at 20:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 20:43
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I think I did pretty good 1st time out with pistols in over 10 years.  Was always a rifle person and now with my rumy eyes I decide to take up pistol popping...go figure.  Any and all feedback will be appreciated...good or bad!  I am sure that with practice I will be able toi bring in those groups!
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 06:42
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ether way it sounds like fun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 07:16
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It was BD!  I found that shooting 5 with each gun in succession at first casued me to be quite erratic.  But after a couple rounds, I started learning and becoming more atuned to the differences in trigger actions and feel of each gun.
 
By the end of the visit I was surprised to see that I was grouping best with the gun that had the worst trigger. (the S&W Model 39 9mm)
 
BTW BD what can be done to improve the trigger on the 9mm?  It's DA, I wouldn't be imposed to changeing it to SA if that can be done.... Something sure needs to be done about all the travel and creep on that thing!!! Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 07:58
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A mate of mine owns a clock 9mm. Been a safe queen for a few years now. He is a good shot and with his hunting rifle pretty deadly.
 
So we decide to do some pistol shooting. At 10 paces he missed an A4 target completely. He was shocked, flabbergasted....Shocked
 
He emptied a box of bullets before getting things under control...shows you...use it or lose it!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 08:25
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Yeah it's a different world for sure.  I can really appreciate the popularity of laser sites on pistols now!!!   Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 08:56
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Bit of the subject but my brother arranged a fun day on the farm for some church members. His best mate proffesed to be this crack shot, so they put up a few cans and my brother and some other guys popped them off. However, every time he gave the pistol to his mate he secretly loaded them with blanks. This guy just could not understand why he was shooting so poorly.
My brother never told him and to this day he still says "what happened to me that day, everybody is popping cans and I could not shoot a thing!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 09:04
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That there is your EVIL twin!  ExcellentExcellentExcellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 10:45
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Bit of the subject but my brother arranged a fun day on the farm for some church members. His best mate proffesed to be this crack shot, so they put up a few cans and my brother and some other guys popped them off. However, every time he gave the pistol to his mate he secretly loaded them with blanks. This guy just could not understand why he was shooting so poorly.
My brother never told him and to this day he still says "what happened to me that day, everybody is popping cans and I could not shoot a thing!!!


That is just too funny. Excellent


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 11:14
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Runs in the family, it does!!! Roll on Floor Laughing
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 11:18
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I've been doing a little research on the S&W Model 39.
 
I'll have to check when I get home but i'm willing to bet
it is a 1st generation 39-1.  Hopefully with the steel frame $$$$!
that would explain the sloppy trigger, being the 1st ever DA semi-auto
S&W ever designed!  Same frame was later used on the Model 52 target!
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 11:31
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Concentrate on:
Stance
Grip
Sight picture
Trigger comtrol
Each time.
Stance: Feet placed about shoulder width apart and so that when you raise the pistol it is naturally pointing at your target, (where your feet go depends on if you are using a one or two handed  grip).
Grip: depends on one or two handed, but basically you want pressure on the front and backstrap of the grip with a strong or tight grip, but not so much pressure that the pistol shakes.
Sight picture: Focus or concentrate (for us old guys) on the front sight, the target and rear sight should be a slight blurr, with the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight and an even amount of light or space on both sides of the front sight in relation to the notch of the rear sight.
Trigger control: The trigger finger should touch nothing but the trigger, it should not touch the side of the pistol. The finger should lay squarely on the face of the trigger between the tip of the finger and the first joint of the finger (some ajustment is allowed to get the finger squared with the trigger face). Pressure should be applied on the trigger evenly and straight back, like your PRESSING a rod straight back into your eye without moving that imaginary rod side to side (pressing the trigger without moving the sights). Concentrate on pressing the trigger and NOT on making the pistol go off; the trigger will do that. The shot should be a suprise.
I know this is very basic, and there are some things that can be different depending on stance and gripped used, but concentrate on the fundamentals.
 
Bud, don't mess with the Mod. 39 trigger! You can make the DA pull smoother, and the SA pull lighter, but it will cost alot, could screw up the sears, and will not make that much of an improvement. Yes the trigger has slop when you first press it, but when you hit that spot where it stops moving easily, it is ready to go, and adding even pressure on it and it will break the shot cleanly like it should (wonder why you shot better with it instead of the 1911).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 11:45
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

I've been doing a little research on the S&W Model 39.
 
I'll have to check when I get home but i'm willing to bet
it is a 1st generation 39-1.  Hopefully with the steel frame $$$$!
that would explain the sloppy trigger, being the 1st ever DA semi-auto
S&W ever designed!  Same frame was later used on the Model 52 target!
 
The 39-1 is an alloy frame, and all the 39/59 series have that same trigger design, just a little updated in the later pistols to improve safety. And if you think it's a lousey trigger, think about this; I won more pistol matches, bullseye, and combat with a S&W 6906, than I ever have with a Glock.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 12:19
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Thanks for the pointers!!!
 I think I started getting sloppy with the 1911 cause it felt more normal to use the second joint of my trigger finger...bad me
 
All the travel in the 39 caused my to conciously use my finger tip on the trigger.
 
Is there just a 39 model with no dash?  I know this is a very early unit.  I'll look at it closely when I get home and try and find out the manuf date from the Serial number... I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's 1st gen, first production run.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 12:21
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Lynn, what size groups do you shoot at 25yds with irons?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 13:13
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Not bad shooting bud. 
When we shot the other day with the new pistol for my dad we put up 3 paper plates, about 4-5ft apart at about 5" high each, We ran drills shooting two into each and moving to the next as quick as you could. It was quite fun!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 13:43
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Here's what I know or don't know. There is a 39 without the dash, but I believe (not sure), they were both steel and alloy frames. The steel frames were dropped from production and some changes were made to the sear components and the -1 was added. Many internal parts will not interchange between the 39 and the 39-1; sears being one of them. There aren't that many steel framed 39s out there, and as you may know, they bring a premium price.
Carbon steel was not used for frames in the 39/59 series until the second generation was introduced. These are the pistols with 3 digits in their model numbers. The first number indicated what the frame was made of; 4=alloy, 5=carbon steel, and 6=stainless steel. So a 439 was an alloy framed 39, and a 659 was a stainless steel 59, etc.. The  carbon steel frames only lasted a couple of years before they were dropped. The three digit pistols also were upgraded with drop safeties, so that the trigger had to be pulled to fire the pistol. If the hammer was accidentally hit, or the pistol was dropped on it's muzzle it will not discharge. Don't try that with your 39-1.
The 3rd generation pistols had 4 digits in their model numbers, and were basically more refined 2nd generation pistols, but most parts will NOT interchange. The 4 digits in the mod. no. would tell you everything about what features the pistol had, examples: a 5906 is a standard full size 9mm stainless 59, a 6906 is a compact alloy framed 59. Basically (and there are exceptions to make it confusing) the first 2 numbers tell you what caliber it is, except the 9mm, and the third number was for special features, such as DA only, SA only, etc., and the last number was for alloy or stainless frame material. It got really confusing unless you had a catalog.
I like the 3rd generation pistols. They are accurate, reliable, robust, safe, and easy to use. They aren't perfect, but the features they have make them a better carry gun for most folks than Glocks IMO.
 
 
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Between my sorry eyesight and the dwaining light, back lighting the targets

I was having a hard time seeing the rear site since they are parkerized.
I'll try and go shooting this weekend before the sun gets behind the targets.
 
So you keep shooting at each 5" plate until you hit it twice then moved to the next?
At what distance?
 
Sounds like fun!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 14:00
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When S&W makes a small change to a pistol or revolver, such as dropping the trigger overtravel stop, or adds a gas shield to a cylinder, or some other change that doesn't greatly affect looks or operation, they add the -No. to the model No. Example: a mod. 66 is a stainless .357 Magnum revolver based on the carbon steel Mod. 19. S&W found that stainless steel doesn't always act like carbon steel, and had to make several small changes over the life of production to increase relibility. You can find a S&W Mod. 66, 66-1, 66-2, 66-3, etc.. All or most parts will interchange within the 66 models, but there is a difference between a 66, and a 66-3, but it may take a S&W smith to know the difference.
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Between my sorry eyesight and the dwaining light, back lighting the targets

I was having a hard time seeing the rear site since they are parkerized.
I'll try and go shooting this weekend before the sun gets behind the targets.
 
So you keep shooting at each 5" plate until you hit it twice then moved to the next?
At what distance?
 
Sounds like fun!
Kinda, we shoot at each target twice, hit or no hit, then move to the next one, shoot twice, and so on until the guns empty, count up your hits and compare to your rounds fired, of course you want all rounds in target but its harder than it seems if you move fast.
 
IF you safety/decock and holster in between each plate it adds a whole new dynamic.  Its how i practice.
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Lynn, what size groups do you shoot at 25yds with irons?
I don't know what I could do now, but when I qualified in recruit school, I shot on a NRA 25yd bull target from 25yds. We fired one handed 10 single action rounds at a target, for score. We did this 3 times and averaged the scores for a final score. I scored a 98, 100, and 99, don't remember the x count. We also shot from 25yds double action at a silhouette target (don't remember which one) and the 10 ring was generous in size. Again it was the average of 3 targets, 10 rounds each and timed. I shot 100s on all three, one handed, and I could have used boyh hands. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 15:17
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Shocked    Bow  teach me O' Obi wan.
 
So I should be focusing on the front site and not the target?  Didn't know that.
Explains why I was having so much trouble in low light!
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Between my sorry eyesight and the dwaining light, back lighting the targets

I was having a hard time seeing the rear site since they are parkerized.
I'll try and go shooting this weekend before the sun gets behind the targets.
 
So you keep shooting at each 5" plate until you hit it twice then moved to the next?
At what distance?
 
Sounds like fun!
Kinda, we shoot at each target twice, hit or no hit, then move to the next one, shoot twice, and so on until the guns empty, count up your hits and compare to your rounds fired, of course you want all rounds in target but its harder than it seems if you move fast.
 
IF you safety/decock and holster in between each plate it adds a whole new dynamic.  Its how i practice.
 
You never said how far you are from the targets.  If  its 25 yds....I hate you! Smile  I think I hardly had any hit within 2.5" of center....period! Whacko
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30ft

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 15:31
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Lynn thanks very much for all the background info on the S&W way of things!  A numbering system that is logical and easy to follow!!! Who would of thunk it!!!  A mechical Engineer must have come up with that!
 
OKAy I'm looking at my 39 and it is indeed a 39 no dash gun serial no 33811.  So its 1st gen pre mod. if not 1st production run.  I'll see if I can find out when it was made.
 
Just check frame with a magnet....its alloy.
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