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Free-floated vs non-free-floated

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I was at a Scheels yesterday and stumbled across a Rem. 700 CDL .270 in LEFT Hand!  I don't know what made me do it, but I got out a dollar bill to check the barrel and stock, to make sure the barrel wasn't touching the stock anywhere.  Much to my surprise, it wasn't free-floated!  Now I have a BDL in .223 at home and I guess I never checked it before, but sure enough, it wasn't "f-f" either.
 
What's your take on that.  I thought everyone was free-floating their barrels now.
 
BTW, they had 2 Sako 75 in .260 Rem!  One was wood/blued for $989.99 and the other was a Greywolf I think.... grey laminate and was $1089.99
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

I was at a Scheels yesterday and stumbled across a Rem. 700 CDL .270 in LEFT Hand!  I don't know what made me do it, but I got out a dollar bill to check the barrel and stock, to make sure the barrel wasn't touching the stock anywhere.  Much to my surprise, it wasn't free-floated!  Now I have a BDL in .223 at home and I guess I never checked it before, but sure enough, it wasn't "f-f" either.
 
What's your take on that.  I thought everyone was free-floating their barrels now.
 
BTW, they had 2 Sako 75 in .260 Rem!  One was wood/blued for $989.99 and the other was a Greywolf I think.... grey laminate and was $1089.99
.................................Nope!......Not everyone free floats their barrels!!.......My .375 Ruger M77 Alaskan model is not free floating. But, the .375 Ruger Howa M1500 that I ordered to replace the Alaskan (selling to neighbor), IS free floating! The Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa`s if I`m not mistaken, are free floating while the standard Vanguards are not. The Browning A-Bolts, X Bolts are all free floating. The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated. Not all Remys are either!........In many cases, free floating is not the standard with many manufacturers
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 12:01
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It depends on how much you love the stock (only get to do it once)--my scout FN stock is epoxied to the barrel --- alot of times this will improve accuracy, when strength is an over riding concern. As far as consistency even in a manufacturer, it probably has to do more if it is friday afternoon or not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 12:58
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(Big Squeeze has a lemonade stand outside Disneyland's front gate where he sells all his surplus ELEPHANT rifles and stuff..)Karate                                  Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 14:14
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I've got a Rem 270 BDL LH and the barrel is free floated except for a small area near the end of the stock under the sling stud. Where does wood meet barrel on yours? I've seen some target stocks with an adjustable stud in about the same locations. The theory being that you can adjust pressure on the barrel and affect harmonics. With my sample of one, can't determine if this was done intentionally by Rem or not. However, the gun shoots MOA.
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated.
 
I find that interesting.  My M77 is free floated.  I didn't do it, and there is no evidence that the stock has ever been altered.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 15:18
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I'm pretty sure Remington still uses a pressure point on all of their sporter's. Even my Custom Shop African Plains Rifle had a pressure point which is removed now after pillar bedding the rifle. Some sporter's will shoot better with a pressure point, usually just under the front sling swivel stud. I know I had a BDL Stainless Synthetic that had a molded in pressure point from the factory. Took care of that one as well with a McMillan replacement stock. I much prefer a free floated barrel to a bedded one. It just lends itself to a more consistent shooter.
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I've got a friend that has a Ruger M77 in 7mm Mouser that grouped about 5"@ 100yds. He free floated the barrel and the groups got worse. He then cut 2 buisness cards down and stuck them between the stock and barrel to put some preassure on the barrel. It now groups about 1 1/4"to 1 1/2". Now that's high tech gunsmithing!Snoopy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 16:26
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated.
 
I find that interesting.  My M77 is free floated.  I didn't do it, and there is no evidence that the stock has ever been altered.
................................With my rifle purchased a year ago I tried to,,,,,,,"squeeze",,,,, some one dollar bills between my stock and the barrel!!.......Nope! A no go!......Maybe your M77 for that year was free-floating!......My new Alaskan  isn`t FF either!............. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 16:36
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

(Big Squeeze has a lemonade stand outside Disneyland's front gate where he sells all his surplus ELEPHANT rifles and stuff..)Karate                                  Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing 
..................................Horse%20Poop...Mr. Ed is at it again!............Altogether now!!!........"A horse is a horse of course of course, unless you know how to talk to a horse of course,,,,unless that horse is that famous horse....."TALK TO MR. ED"!!!......OH WILBURRRRRRRRR!!!!!!.........LaughMooner   Na%20Na  Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 16:38
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated.
 
I find that interesting.  My M77 is free floated.  I didn't do it, and there is no evidence that the stock has ever been altered.
................................With my rifle purchased a year ago I tried to,,,,,,,"squeeze",,,,, some one dollar bills between my stock and the barrel!!.......Nope! A no go!......Maybe your M77 for that year was free-floating!......My new Alaskan  isn`t FF either!............. 
 
It was manufactured in 1989 according to the serial number.  The guy that bought it originally is a lefty and bought this right bolt rifle.  He shot about 50 rounds through it, put it in the gun safe for the next 15 years and never shot it.  He decided to sell it and I picked it up  basically brand new with a scope on it for 350 cash.  It is a 300 win mag and shoots an 1" or better at 100 yards.  I have never even tried to put pressure on the barrel to see what happens.  Don't see a point.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 16:39
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I'm pretty sure Remington still uses a pressure point on all of their sporter's. Even my Custom Shop African Plains Rifle had a pressure point which is removed now after pillar bedding the rifle. Some sporter's will shoot better with a pressure point, usually just under the front sling swivel stud.
 
Roy is correct.  ALL wood stocked Remington 700s with sporter contour barrels come out of the box with a pressure point against the barrel near the end of the forend.
 
Some rifles shoot better with the pressure point, some don't.  However, a wood stock can swell and move, so the amount of dampening pressure on the barrel is subject to change.  A floated barrel may not always provide better accuracy than a bedded barrel, but usually heavy barrel contours do better without any pressure pads, which is why Remington's heavy barrel contour models are floated.  Anytime I accurize a M700, I always pillar bed the action and remove this pressure point to float the barrel.  I have almost always found an improvement in accuracy when I sand out the pressure pad, so I'm puzzled by Remington's decision to keep using it in their sporters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 16:42
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated.
 
I find that interesting.  My M77 is free floated.  I didn't do it, and there is no evidence that the stock has ever been altered.
................................With my rifle purchased a year ago I tried to,,,,,,,"squeeze",,,,, some one dollar bills between my stock and the barrel!!.......Nope! A no go!......Maybe your M77 for that year was free-floating!......My new Alaskan  isn`t FF either!............. 
 
It was manufactured in 1989 according to the serial number.  The guy that bought it originally is a lefty and bought this right bolt rifle.  He shot about 50 rounds through it, put it in the gun safe for the next 15 years and never shot it.  He decided to sell it and I picked it up  basically brand new with a scope on it for 350 cash.  It is a 300 win mag and shoots an 1" or better at 100 yards.  I have never even tried to put pressure on the barrel to see what happens.  Don't see a point.
....................That explains it then! It`s a 1989 Ruger!
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I've got a friend that has a Ruger M77 in 7mm Mouser that grouped about 5"@ 100yds. He free floated the barrel and the groups got worse. He then cut 2 buisness cards down and stuck them between the stock and barrel to put some preassure on the barrel. It now groups about 1 1/4"to 1 1/2". Now that's high tech gunsmithing!Snoopy
 
Sometimes thin (sporter) barrel contours benefit from added support near the end of the forend channel to dampen barrel "whip" and improve accuracy.  The problem is finding the optimal "sweet spot" location to tune the barrel for best accuracy for the load used, as well as finding the optimal amount of upward pressure, which can change over time if the stock shrinks or swells any.  This is why barrel pressure pads are tricky and why it is usually better to just float the barrel and tune with your load data instead of trying to find the optimal barrel dampening location.  Even though a floated barrel may not always produce the very best accuracy with a given load compared to a bedded barrel, it will usually produce the most consistent results, because the barrel isn't influenced by any external pressures.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 17:44
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interesting!  I have had times when my 700 BDL .223 wouldn't shoot.... I thought the scope was bad, I wonder if humidity or something like that was the issue.  It shoots great now.
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hey heres a interesting article about some of the science behind what you guys are discussing.

http://www.ozfclass.com/articles/1/psm_2005_03.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 16:53
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

I was at a Scheels yesterday and stumbled across a Rem. 700 CDL .270 in LEFT Hand!  I don't know what made me do it, but I got out a dollar bill to check the barrel and stock, to make sure the barrel wasn't touching the stock anywhere.  Much to my surprise, it wasn't free-floated!  Now I have a BDL in .223 at home and I guess I never checked it before, but sure enough, it wasn't "f-f" either.
 
What's your take on that.  I thought everyone was free-floating their barrels now.
 
BTW, they had 2 Sako 75 in .260 Rem!  One was wood/blued for $989.99 and the other was a Greywolf I think.... grey laminate and was $1089.99
.................................Nope!......Not everyone free floats their barrels!!.......My .375 Ruger M77 Alaskan model is not free floating. But, the .375 Ruger Howa M1500 that I ordered to replace the Alaskan (selling to neighbor), IS free floating! The Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa`s if I`m not mistaken, are free floating while the standard Vanguards are not. The Browning A-Bolts, X Bolts are all free floating. The Ruger M77`s, including my Frontier compact are not free floated. Not all Remys are either!........In many cases, free floating is not the standard with many manufacturers
 
I have a Sub MOA Vanguard which is not free floated. I don't know if its the composite stock or what, but this gun always groups about 5/8" regardless of temp & humidity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 20:43
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Originally posted by Fbuckshot Fbuckshot wrote:

I've got a Rem 270 BDL LH and the barrel is free floated except for a small area near the end of the stock under the sling stud. Where does wood meet barrel on yours? I've seen some target stocks with an adjustable stud in about the same locations. The theory being that you can adjust pressure on the barrel and affect harmonics. With my sample of one, can't determine if this was done intentionally by Rem or not. However, the gun shoots MOA.
  i was fixing to type in the same thing, my m700 cdl is the same way its floated until the last oh maybe 1.5" or maybe 2" at the most, the rest is floating, its not hard to make the whole thing float if you wish, i had to take the pressure ridge out of my .280 rem i took some corse sand paper and a deep well socket that matched the size of the barrel channel and sanded it out that way took maybe 5 min and it was fine. i cant remember if my rem 673 was floating or not i should go check, im sure if it wasnt it is now i cant remember though.

Edited by pyro6999 - April/21/2008 at 20:47
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I am new to high powered riffles.  but that is finally useful...because I have researched just about every munufacturer there is. I have found that just about all the top 10 have ATLEAST ONE MODEL that is free floating. The beleif right now is that "free floating" is the way to go. It come down tohat YOU believe and how YOU think...confidence in your gun only makes YOU better. My great-grandfather would say...free floating what the hell is that, the barrel is going to fall off. He was the best shot I have seen in along time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2008 at 20:57
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however I just bought a free floating weatherby.
personal preference.
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Weatherby only free floats one model and that is the Accumark, which has a heavier contour barrel than all others for the same caliber, at least until you get to larger calibers.  None of the Vanguards are free floated.  The matter of free floating a barrel still remains some what of an urban legend with respect to accuracy when applied to all rifles, in all calibers, in all types of stocks across the board.  I personally have seen what free floating will do to a fine shooting 300 Wby. when free floated in a good synthetic stock with an aluminum bedding block.  With a number 2 contour barrel it would occasionally print a couple good shots and then throw fliers all over the place, with a cool barrel.  The first shot from a cool barrel from day to day was always different.  I tried floating it to the major contour and then completely to the receiver, no change.  After applying a pressure pad at the tip, it settled down to shoot consistent 1 inch groups, about the same or maybe even slightly worse than what it did in the basic synthetic stock it came in without any free floating.  Wby. and the stock maker both recommended not free floating that Mark V and barrel combination.  I free floated a 240 Wby. with a number 1 contour barrel and it improved the accuracy to the 0.5 inch groups that I posted.  Prior to that, in the basic synthetic stock, it shot at 1 inch groups easily, with the same ammo.  I can only assume that the power and energy of the 300 creates so much whip with that contour barrel that free floating worsened the situation.  I have since re-stocked it in a B and C Medalist stock channeled for a #2 barrel, but have not had a chance to shoot it yet.  Bottom line, depending on the rifle, caliber and stock, free floating may be the answer, but may not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2008 at 02:47
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 I'm still lost .... years ago everyone wanted them free floated .... was a craze . Then some expert came along and said it lets the barrel vibrate/resonate and throws the bullet off . The military clamps the barrel into the stock tighter than all h*ll and those rifles ... american and foreign snipe pretty darn accurate .... gotta go finish customizing/tacticalizing my 870 3 1/2 " super magnum .... folder .... the most powerful handgun in the world ..... hehehe
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