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Zeiss conquest vs vortex razors

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2013 at 21:28
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Whats the skinny, which pair is better. 10x42's. Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2013 at 22:09
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Neither is better than the other.  Both are superb binoculars.  However, since the Conquest HD is about $300 less than the Razor HD, buying the Conquest seems to me to be a no brainer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2013 at 23:04
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Klamath, thanks for the help. I guess I should add, that I would only be paying $1000.00 new for either pair. SO price is the same for me. I should also add that now I am considering the Steiner 8X44 peregrine XP for $1200.00....is it worth the additional $200.00 for the Steiner peregrines? Thank you
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 08:14
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For that kind of money I would not count out the Meopta Meostar 10x42 HD's  imo
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 09:41
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 Take a look at the Kowa Genesis 10.5 X 44 XD.

Peddler Cool Cool Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 10:59
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I actually liked the idea of the kowa genesis both the 8.5 and the 10.5, but all I keep reading about is the steiner peregrines. I cant seem to find any info on the kowa genesis from people who own them. I know you have them and are happy with them Peddler. I would like to find others also. Thanks for any and all help guys.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 11:39
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The big thing with the Peregrine is that they are somewhat physically larger than the Zeiss or the Vortex.  They also have the look and feel of being the toughest binocular I've ever handled.  They are also hands down my all time ergonomic favorites.  They have a stellar image.  Now, I have had the Conquest and Razor side by side, but it has been some time since I had the Steiner for review.

With all three you get state of the art dielectric prism mirrors.  Meopta is still with 20 year old silver mirror coatig technology.

The Genesis may or may not show you the rolling ball effect.  There is very little pincushion distortion at the edge and absolute edge sharpness can cause some weird things for some.  That is one I'd try before I bought.  I've seen them and am not bothered by the effect and the Genesis is certainly a nice binocular.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 12:33
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The Meoptas are dielectric coated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 15:06
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is it worth stepping my game up to Swarovski binos? If so, which model is best for the buck? Thanks again
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 16:36
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

The Meoptas are dielectric coated.

Pretty long discussion on Bird Forum with posts from a Meopta rep that say they are silver.  Go to post 22.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=251390


Edited by Klamath - March/09/2013 at 16:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 16:59
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The contact I had with Meopta was that both the S2 spotter and HD bins have dielectric coated S-P roof prisms.
 
Maybe I misunderstood, or maybe I was misinformed.
 
In any case, I wouldn't count out the Meoptas based on that spec.  The overall performance is outstanding, and better than the Zeiss Conquest HD, IMO.
 


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - March/09/2013 at 17:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2013 at 18:39
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

 
The contact I had with Meopta was that both the S2 spotter and HD bins have dielectric coated S-P roof prisms.
 
Maybe I misunderstood, or maybe I was misinformed.
 
In any case, I wouldn't count out the Meoptas based on that spec.  The overall performance is outstanding, and better than the Zeiss Conquest HD, IMO.
 

Don't misunderstand, I'm not counting the Meopta out based on silver mirror coating.  I'm not counting them in or out on anything till I see one.  Since the thread I linked says they have no plans for an 8x42 HD either, then it may be some time till I do see one.  None of the dealers I can get to carry Meopta.

Now I'm really wondering what is up with the coatings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 12:46
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Originally posted by billiam13 billiam13 wrote:

is it worth stepping my game up to Swarovski binos? If so, which model is best for the buck? Thanks again

That really depends on your budget.  The PeregrineXP are surely the equal of the original EL and the SLC-Neu.

As far as I am concerned the gains you will get in quality over the $1,200 level are not worth the price the gain costs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 13:56
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Really interesting reviews over on the Birdforum regarding the Meopta HD's and Leupold McKinley's.  Can't link here, but it's under the Leupold binocular forum in case anyone's intersted.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 14:07
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Why can't you link it here, it's just a review isn't it?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 15:39
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Here is the BF thread:
 
 
Interesting for sure.
 
I have the Meopta HDs in hand now.
 
I had quite a bit of time with the Zen Ray Prime, include using them in the hunting fields of Alaska.  The Primes apparently perform similarly to the McKinley.
 
I did notice CA in the Prime.  I also noticed the field curvature ring Frank noted.
 
The Meopta HD does not have these problems.  The Meopta HD, when right next to my SLC neu, provides an almost identical image, but with better CA control.  I have glassed right to dark with both tripod mounted, and can say apparent brightness is a dead heat. 
 
I think anyone budgeting anywhere around $1000 for bins would benefit to put the Meostar HD at the top of the list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 16:36
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The Meopta/Cabelas Euro HD's are sweet.  I see zero CA in the Mckinley.  I was under the impression you couldn't link to any other optics site. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 17:17
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It's not a link to a retailer in direct competition with SWFA.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 18:52
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Why can't you link it here, it's just a review isn't it?

That is the thread I started on BF.  Same review I posted here.

Matt, I'm not sure what to make of your Meopta comments.  I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind they are a good glass.  However, I have had the McKinley side by side with both the Swarovision and the SLC-HD.  Even the SONA rep at the Winter Wings Festival was impressed with both the Prime and the McKinley.  This may get close to heresy to some people, but I would wager that a LARGE chunk of viewers would initially place the initial image preference as follows.  Swarovision, McKinley, and SLC-HD.  This assumes the binoculars are disguised in some way to fend off any preconceived notion on the part of the viewer that since they are Swaroviski, they are both de facto and de jure the better binocular. This plays a far larger role in selection than many will admit.  The McKinley is flatter at the edge (than the SLC-HD) and the contrast and color balance is just about identical in the SLC-HD and the McKinley.  I also have a PM opinion from somebody I have known for a long time who has recently wrung out both the McKinley and the Meopta who tells me they are identical in optical performance.  I tend to believe that because there is really in practical fact, not any room to squeeze much in between the Gold Ring or the McKinley or the Swarovski.

So, yeah, I'm interested in seeing a Meopta HD.  But the only way I'll get that done is to buy it, and even though they are very probably a hell of a deal for the $1,000, that ain't gonna happen. Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 20:09
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That's alright Steve,

I suppose we don't have to agree on everything. My opinions are just that, mine. I have seen and used the binoculars I am commenting on, and in more than just a quick look scenario. I have come to my opinions based on that use. The Primes are pretty darn good. I know you know what you're talking about and trust the McKinleys are also very good.

I find the image in the Meostar HD much better than that of the Prime. It seems pretty noticeable to me, especially considering the aforementioned "ring." That is simply my opinion. I recommend the Meostars because I genuinely think they are outstanding.

Some time ago I asked a friend, not really into optics which he liked better. He did not recognize either brand. He quickly and emphatically decided the Meostars the victor. He did this after spending a good week hunting with the Primes, but only after shortly using the Meoptas, so take that for what it is worth.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 20:37
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:


I find the image in the Meostar HD much better than that of the Prime. It seems pretty noticeable to me, especially considering the aforementioned "ring."

There is what I'm having a problem with.  There simply is not enough room in image difference for even a new Swaro to be "noticeably better than the Prime", nor for that matter, the McKinley either.  I'm having a heck of a time figuring out just how the Meopta is going to get that done...unless you had a substandard Prime...or I have both a cherry Prime and McKinley...or who knows.  Big Smile

That ring is insignificant.  You either have to be seriously looking for something like that before you see it, or you have to know it's there before hand.  It is almost absent from my Prime, I really have to look for it, and I already know it's there.  In normal use I would never notice it.  EDIT:  I can't see that ring on the new stock Primes I have from the Winter Wings Festival booth.  I know Charles made a couple of production tweaks after the first run.

I may have to bite the bullet and buy a Meopta HD with the idea of wringing it out and returning it, but I really don't like doing that.  But maybe it is  the binocular that finally checks all my checklist points.  I have some that come awful close, but nothing has checked them all off yet.

This would be a dull place if everybody agreed on everything Big Smile.


Edited by Klamath - March/10/2013 at 20:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 20:40
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Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Why can't you link it here, it's just a review isn't it?

That is the thread I started on BF.  Same review I posted here.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 21:03
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In regards to the SLC HD/McKinley comparison that Klamath refers to........I've posted before than IMO the SLC HD is the finest hunting glass ever made, and I'll stick with that, and I've seen most all the top shelf stuff in the field.  The McKinley is really, really close, and I have no idea what ring BB is referring to.  My buddy who owns a shop in town was taking inventory today so I stopped by.  I can see zero difference between the McKinley, Conquest HD, and Meopta HD. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 21:04
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Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:


There is what I'm having a problem with.  There simply is not enough room in image difference for even a new Swaro to be "noticeably better than the Prime", nor for that matter, the McKinley either.  I'm having a heck of a time figuring out just how the Meopta is going to get that done...unless you had a substandard Prime...or I have both a cherry Prime and McKinley...or who knows.  Big Smile
 
That is the rub there, Steve.  These small differences are much more noticeable to me than to many other people.  I am sure there are some that would agree with me, and clearly some that wouldn't.
 
I have already conceded to myself that I am MUCH more sensitive to CA than most people.  Like CA, the "ring" isn't super noticeable, unless you look for it, which of course I do.  However, no matter how much I look for it in the Meopta it will never be there. 
 
I am less picky about other performance areas, like extreme edge sharpness, or pincushion distortion.  I am sure there are those that put those areas above all others, and their opinions will vary from mine.
 
Everybody is different.  On another website, I had a PM from a guy that knew I had the Primes.  He told me he thought his were defective, because he noticed they weren't (to his eyes) as sharp as his friend's alphas.  I told him that opinions varied, but my SLC neus were apparently sharper to me than the Primes.  I further advised if he was concerned, he should have Zen Ray look at them.  He liked them enough overall to keep them, however.
 
Then there is the eyecup design of the Primes, which I found disturbing.  In fact, eyecup design alone would be worth the difference in price for me.  I spend many, many hours with binocular eyecups pressed against my face.
 
I am kind of defending my opinion here, and I don't want to get on the Primes too badly.  They still are the best Chinese produced bin in overall quality that I have seen, and still offer tons of value.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2013 at 22:10
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No need to defend your opinion on my behalf.  Smile

The Prime, and for that matter the McKinley, do have large ocular diameters and those will not suit a lot of people.  That is one tiny checkpoint on the ideal binocular list they don't quite tick off for me.

I happen to think that anybody should be careful about teaching themselves to look too closely at, or for, minute differences.  Pretty soon even a $2,500 Swarovision will be lacking.

Anyway, I have faith in your high opinion of the Meopta, and if I go with one you will be one reason I did.
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