Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials. |
Neck Turning? |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
richardca99
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/01/2008 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: February/15/2008 at 23:07 |
I'm just getting into reloading, and I'm trying to determine whether I should be worried about outside case neck turning. I understand what can be achieved by doing it, but if my goal is to work up good hunting loads, is neck turning a varsity skill that I can live without?
|
|
RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
For a hunting rifle, neck-tuning is probably one of the very last things you need to be doing to get the most from your rifle. It takes some fairly costly tools and quite a bit of time for some very small dividends, generally realized only in the most accurate rifles.
Personally, I do it occasionally, because it's kinda fun, but for a beginning reloader, I really can't recommend doing it to achieve any significant improvement in accuracy.
For the time being, concentrate on solid, basic handloading tools and techniques. Get good manuals and STUDY them!
Keep good records and work on load development, especially bullet and propellent choice. That's where to spend the time and money for the big payoffs.
|
|
Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
outside neck turning pays off best when the brass has been through several cycles, say 10 and the necks have developed little hills and valleys. it returns the neck to its circular values and reduces the neck thickness that has been built up by the primer swager. most hunting rifles barrel's don't have concentric bore-neck and chambers, they become ellipsoid as the chamber reamers wear out, then when you fire, the case is made into that dimension. hunting guns that benefit most are varmit rifles.
|
|
cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
RONK and Dale are 100% correct.
I have turned necks for some of my factory chambered stuff for a good while and yielded zero discernible benefits save being able to crack walnuts with my bare hands afterwards....
|
|
RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No kidding! Glenn Zediker describes case prep equipment as "...twisty, spinny, blister-raising hand tools."
I love that description!
|
|
cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Perfect description, Ron.
|
|
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Unless you're shooting benchrest with a rifle using a tight neck custom chamber or you're necking down a case to smaller caliber (which sometimes necessitates removing brass thickness at the neck), you won't need to neck turn for a hunting rifle. Generally, a factory rifle doesn't have the inherent accuracy to realize the very small improvement to accuracy. As Dale mentioned, sometimes neck turning will true up the neck on a well-used case. Once you turn very many case necks, believe me, you will be thankful that it's a largely unnecessary step!
I may end up using it as a disciplinary action method for when my daughter misbehaves...
"One more word outta you, young lady, and it will be 4 hours worth of neck turning and primer pocket uniforming for you!" Edited by RifleDude - February/18/2008 at 22:50 |
|
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
|
tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Online Points: 9044 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I agree with all of the above, you funny guys. I haven't had to do it, either.
|
|
Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
some of the new cases, wsm, that when formed down, retain the same brass thickness as the body, and haven't been tapered. The thickness is way to much, and neck turning is almost impossible. If the case is neck is taken down the normal amt.s the case doesn't have enough tension to hold the bullet. as the die was set up for the thicker brass. 223
the worst haven't tried 300 yet.
the process works best with lots, of 100 to 200 , dedicated to life of that barrel.
|
|
Mike McDonald
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/01/2004 Status: Offline Points: 739 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'd encourage you to try turning necks and see how that changes the response in your rifle. While I wouldn't do it for hunting loads because of all the drawbacks involved, until YOU know, you'll never really be able to shake the idea that there's that one more thing you should be doing.
Having said that, short list of things that pay dividends with brass and prep; Pick one brand of brass and stay with it. FL size all new brass Trim all FL sized brass to the same length Uniform the flash holes Uniform the primer pockets (Sinclairs is your friend) Once you have a bunch of new brass processed, keep it as one lot. If you do something to 1 piece of that lot, do it to all pieces of that lot. These very simple steps pay huge dividends and stave off some serious frustration.
Count your fingers before starting to reload. You've been sucessful if you have the same count when finished. |
|
richardca99
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/01/2008 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the feedback...sounds like most of you agree that other than for peace of mind, it's largely unnecessary. If I had the ability to measure runout and case wall thickness, would it be worth doing after a few firings for the purposes of culling the brass?
|
|
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Amen to that, brother!
|
|
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
|
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sure, everything is worth trying to see if it matters in your rifle... but I'm betting it won't in a typical hunting rifle.
|
|
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
|
cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Anything that you can do to put the brass into as much a LIKE LIKE situation is going to help you, as far as obtaining that accuracy for targets and long distance. For most hunting applications it will be largely unnecessary.
|
|
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
|
smithrjd
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/27/2006 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Start with good brass, expensive sometimes but I have found it worth the money in the long run. RWS, Norma, Lapua, Hornady are some of the best I have found. Not to say Remington, Winchester, and Federal are bad but they have not been as consistant as the others. As to runout, roll the loaded case on a piece of glass you will see any problems. For a hunting rifle and loads I have found neck turning, runout not really a good return on the investment in equipment and time. Benchrest is a whole other game. It really does depend on what cartridge, magnums are a bit different and have their own issues. Short magnums again are different. Learn to neck size and always use cases fired in the rifle for reloading. Range pickups, used brass can and will give trouble. Reloading is not that hard, especially for hunting rounds.
|
|
www.technika.nu
Optics Journeyman Joined: August/02/2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 611 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yep, those purposemade handtools are mainly junk beacuse they are made to be sold for less than 100 dollars.
While I agree with you all about the huntingloads, i do outside neckturning for some of my more accurate rifles.
but i do it in the lathe, and that is much faster gives better results and finnish and there is no need for deburring.
Regards Technika
|
|
RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to say they are junk, merely because they sell for less than 100 dollars. There are many high-quality hand tools on the market that do thier jobs very well indeed. A carbide primer pocket uniformer from EJS for example, does as accurate a job as can be accomplished by any 10,000 dollar lathe, Lee Case trimmers cut cases to virtually absolute uniformity and sell for what, 15 bucks? There are many other examples, too...
|
|
Mojo
Optics Journeyman All Mojo Joined: December/26/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 482 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Agree with the uniformity. I weigh my brass as well, and anything +or- 10% gets set aside. Amazing the differences even with a given lot, especially in the less expensive stuff.
|
|
MOJO
|
|
Longhunter
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/02/2006 Status: Offline Points: 466 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mojo is correct. Weighing the brass and keeping it within certain tolerances is one of the quicker and easier ways to improve your ammo.
|
|
8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
For normal hunting accuracy neck turning is not required. I started to do some target shooting of late and did neck turning on a 30-06 and a 300H&H. In my opinion it helped to tighten up the grouping.
I have neck turned all my brass. I have also bought a new Rem 308, and have allready neck turned the cheaper new brass. They were badly out of concentricity. I also bought Lapua brass, and do not need to be turned. They are perfect out the box.
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |