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Energy Dumping |
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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yeah I'm located at the Georgia Institute Of technology. geek central
yeah I just keep hearing about energy dumped into a deer.i was just trying to figuer out out it is dumped into it with a pass thru is all nothing to major today.
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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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if the collision is elastic, the two objects will rebound from the collision with no deformation in either, pool and particle physics, as the materials start to differ, the collision becomes more inelastic, heat,deformation, a molecular rearangement, and velocity must still be algebra summable |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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dale:wtf did you just say?? you lost me after if the collision is elastic,
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 8905 |
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Sometimes Dale just scares me.....
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God save the Empire!
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I think this section of the piece does a good job of explaining why speed itself (and the resulting "shock waves") is not what causes all the trauma in a gunshot wound, but rather the effects speed has on KE and momentum and the resulting behavior of the projectile.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i like to talk to dale because he is so damn smart! but sometimes to understand dale you gotta read it 3 times cause he so smart, the man is working towards cold fushion i hope!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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CowboyBill
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/08/2008 Location: Nashville, Tenn Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Dale Clifford, for head of the Department of Energy, in the next administration.
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A horse may be an outdated mode of transportation, but you don't buy hay by the gallon.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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doesnt pay enough remember he didnt want to be president either!!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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like the DOE idea, would get to play with all their guns,--- then-- there is that concept of being able to use lethal force on anything not authorized in something like a 1/4 perimeter of nuclear sites.
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CowboyBill
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/08/2008 Location: Nashville, Tenn Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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We have our man!!!!! He's got his priorities in order too..........
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A horse may be an outdated mode of transportation, but you don't buy hay by the gallon.
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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its not hard keeping track of were the energy goes, the big problem is that it changes with every shot. just trying to predict the total amt. of ke needed to put something down is difficult, let alone 1/8 to tissue damage, 1/4 to nerve damage etc. as an example.
gets into a previous post in ot on what is overkill
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Graysteel
Optics Apprentice Joined: October/02/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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RifleDude,
It is true that rifles projectiles do not generally travel at the speed of sound in water, but the sonic velocity is not the determining factor for wounding. This is where the author of the text makes a small misstep. Fluids (both compressible and non compressible) can transport energy at frequencies aside from their sonic velocity. To continue with the pool ball analogy, it is a bit like the initial break. Imagine the tissue is the pool balls and each ball is connected to the next with rubberbands. If you hit them only moderately hard they will bounce around but return to their initial configuration. If you hit them harder the bands will break and they will not return to their initial configuration. This is where the commonly referenced 2000 FPS comes in. It just so happens that when struck at a velocity of that around that speed many tissues do not have the structural integrity to stay together. It really varies quite a lot depending on the tissue in question, which is why I said earlier that shot placement affects more than the obvious. A paintball, which typically travels about 300 fps, will burst surface capillaries and leave a funny looking bruise. What has happened is mainly two things, first there is a crush wound directly under the ball where one 'layer' of tissue was pushed into another. Secondly there is shearing as the center of the circle is pushed rapidly down. Inertia keeps the surrounding skin in place, while the the area where the ball is striking is pressed down. While skin is extremely elastic and doesn't rip, the thin blood vessels are not as elastic and tend to part. (I didn't explain that very well) Think threads inside a sheet of rubber.. you can push in the middle and stretch the rubber but some of the threads are going to break. The key here is that this is happen at a relatively low energy level. Once you get up to the several thousand feet per second level the effects are more dramatic. Again, I fall back to my position the key is what specific tissue the round passes through. The article also mentions: This is well within the elasticity limits of tissue such as muscle, blood vessels, and lungs, Only inelastic tissue like liver, or the extremely fragile tissues of the brain, would show significant damage due to temporary cavitation.(4) Again, this acknowledges the differences in tissue. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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holy sh*t where was this guy when i was in high school and college? i can feel myself getting smarter because i understand it, pretty soon im going to be talking like dale and then what?
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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trying to develop small scale monopoles for national defense.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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cold fushion dale figure it out the last guy at the u of u that did it got jerked around pretty good by the feds
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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The guy who tried cold fusion had some flaked out equiptment that was not calibrated... I worked where he gave his first talk and we ran all the test too. Our stuff was calibrated! My best guess was he had a flaked out ballist or some other possable source for stray emp, mixed with some flaked out grounds, and it showed up on his dector. We asked when his stuff was cal-ed last and got no answer.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
WWW.formitch.com |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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The thing that this does not address is the nervous system, it's electrochemical. A lot of the so called "hydrostatic shock" is the electro chemical system reaction. That is only starting to be understood.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
WWW.formitch.com |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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Forget the nervous system for now, though very important regarding the biophysical aspects of a kill.
Pressure wave theory is far from being proven. It is a known fact that high energy, low mass projectiles produce large temporary stretch cavities. These have not been proven to be the holy grail for pure energy disciples. The permanent stretch cavity has been proven to be of paramount importance. Organs and other tissues are "elastic". Therefore temporary cavities that return to the initial displacement of the initial wound channel are of the greatest concern. Newton"s Laws certainly have their place and are a good basic guide line. These laws give us a purely physical representation of what happens in projectile dynamics. We have to remain open to the fact that low mass high energy projectiles do not compare with high mass projectiles at similar energy levels. Besides, to consider relativity does not even count at these velocities. I'll take big and fast over small and fast any day of the week. Edited by tahqua - February/05/2008 at 20:17 |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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this is so intresting to me you guys should go on a nation wide tour and give talks about it!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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The .270 produces the largest permanent wound cavity of all!
Oh yeah, I forgot, the biggest energy dump of all |
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