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MOA or Mils

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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2008 at 13:39
 
 Okay, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it can run that far. Afterall, a .223 can, with the right bullet, outperform many .308 loads in wind at that range and they have even less case capacity than the 7.62x39 case.
  Dale -you are certainly correct about the 168 grain bullet being less than optimum at long range in the .308.  The 180s and 190s are definately better ballistically. My point was that the 123 grain bullet in .264 is also far from ballistically anywhere near a 160 in that caliber, and I just pulled the well-known 168  gr. 308 bullet out of the hat for the sake of comparison.
 
 Edited to add: I'm conceding only the velocity and wind bucking abilities at this point. I still think the .308 will have the energy advantage most of the time, depending on the exact load. Not that energy is even a factor for punching paper. Also, I looked up the 123 grain Scenar bullet in the .264 caliber.  It has a very impressive Ballistic Coefficient of .547.  I expected a much lower value... I'll have to look into this round further.  I bet it's a hoot to shoot, (can't have any real recoil), and probably easy to reload, too.


Edited by RONK - January/13/2008 at 14:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2008 at 14:18

Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

opps sorry ----- ya an ak case. alexander arms makes most of the claims. 168 grs aren't real good at 1000 yds either, but the real challenge will be getting the ar in any caliber to do the deed. As I recall Alex. arms says it comes closer to the 308 at these ranges than it does to the .223. Out of my ar10t a 168 shows 1790 fps left. and 14 moa of drop (100 yd zero) and my6.5 x284 at the same comparison shows 2085 fps and 8 moa drop at 2900 fps. launch. So slowing down to around 2500 fps would just about do it.  

 Re: the part I highlighted in red;  I assume these are 600 yard values?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2008 at 11:06
ya 600, the grendel makes sense in an ar15 because of magazine length, but in a bolt there are better selections.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2008 at 11:40
So then, does anybody here know the difference between the words ACCURACY and PRECISION.
 
What is the difference between an accurate rifle and a precise rifle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2008 at 11:42
accurate is being able to hit what you are aiming at, the process allows for errors cancelling errors--- precision is the ability of the combination to repeat itself with the smallest statistical deviation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2008 at 11:44
all my guns are accurate, but some are more precise,--- precision is not a necessary and sufficient condition for accuracy, but accuracy is necessary for precision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2008 at 02:16
I'm basically too lazy to do it, because I've done it many times elsewhere before, but here's the deal.
 
We are working with multiple concepts and a few aberrations and anomalies.
 
Definitions and are understanding are required for the following:
 
ACCURACY   PRECISION   REPEATABILITY
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2008 at 09:15
Originally posted by Critter Critter wrote:

I'm basically too lazy to do it, because I've done it many times elsewhere before, but here's the deal.
 
We are working with multiple concepts and a few aberrations and anomalies.
 
Definitions and are understanding are required for the following:
 
ACCURACY   PRECISION   REPEATABILITY
 
 
 We are also dealing with personal opinions when it comes right down to it. What I mean is that, for example, what one person defines as "accurate" may be completely unacceptable to another. An elephant hunter may think his .470 Nitro is "accurate" because it will put all of it's bullets into a 4-inch circle at 100 yards, while a Benchrester may consider his rifle inaccurate if it fails to put them all into a quarter-inch between centers at the same distance.  There really are no clearly-defined terms or standards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2008 at 09:18

regrettably this falls into the "when does a river become long" catagory, or hard set classification. properties of each contain elements of the other therefore an intersection or union of sets (venn diagram) will always be the case. the only workable solution to this problem is (and it just doesn't exist to topics in this forum) are "FIS" or fuzzy inference sets, which are certainly past the orginal posters question, but would be a good one for you to start in the hunting and shooting section.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2008 at 17:12
Originally posted by Crotchity Crotchity wrote:

Another newbie question and I have done searches all over and cant find the answer.
 
Which is more precise MOA or Mils as in USO and S & B turret options.
 
What happens in a scope is that when you turn the knob, it extends an end effector (like a hand) that moves the erector tube which contains the cross hair.
 
Now a MOA knob can be divided into increments which move the tube say 1/2 or 1/4 moa per click. This moves the point of impact about 1/2 or 1/4 inches at 100 yards.
 
The metric knob moves the erector the equivalent of .1 MIL or about 1 cm at 100 meters or 110 yards approx. 10 cm is about 3.9 inches.  1 cm is .394 inches at 110 yards or slightly less (.360")  at 100 yards.
 
So when you compare 1/4 inch at 100 yards to .394 inches at 100 yards, it seems the 1/4 moa knob is more accurate. The 1/2 MOA per click not as precise. All are very similar and I think most will agree that for most shooting all will work fine.
 
I think that is right, but I will leave it to the experts to check my work.
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