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Handgun Cartridges

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284winguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 284winguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2008 at 18:57
 My one handgun for everything would be a Ruger or S&W 357 mag, 4" or 6" barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2008 at 07:14
357 mag, heavy framed revolver, no doubt. The various cartridges that are available make it fantastic, remember it can also chamber and fire the 38 cartridges.
The next would be the 454 casull as it can also chamber and use several different cartridge configurations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 08:32
I have to agree with Dale--it's impossible for one handgun to do all that.  If I HAVE to choose from your selection, I would say a 6 inch S&W. That would be excellent for target shooting and whatever hunting a 357 is capable of, but not so hot as a concealed weapon.
Personally, I would want the N frame. 
 
Otherwise, I would REALLY get a 22 and just have a ball with it and hope I didn't get into a gunfight with someone shooting a shotgun at me!   Eek        --Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucznik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2008 at 23:37
I've often read in the various gun rags the comment that the .357 is light for hunting but, I'm not entirely sure why people think that as it seems that almost no one who writes this statement has actually ever tried to hunt with the .357.  I also don't personally know anyone who has done any hunting with one. It just seems that the accepted wisdom, through whatever logic, has become that big game handgun hunting cartridges must always start with at least the number 4. I remember reading that when it first came out and was the "most powerful handgun in the world" numerous people went out with this cartridge and successfully killed everything under the sun including deer, elk, moose, and even Alaskan Brown Bears with it so; the gun is certainly capable of these tasks.

Sometimes I wonder if it's now being decried as "light" not for any actual failing of the cartridge itself but, simply because there are bigger/more powerful options to be had. And of course, this is America; bigger/more powerful is always better!!! Wink   It's kind of like guys choosing their .300 Super-Ultra-Wonder-Magnums to go whitetail hunting 'cause they wouldn't want to be "under-gunned." Shocked  Obviously you're not going to shoot a deer at 600 yards with a 30-30 but, that doesn't make it an unacceptable choice for hunting deer.  You just have to accept that you have to get a little closer.

Before I get flamed too much, I will point out that I've never killed anything larger than a jackrabbit with my .357 so; I have as little (or less) experience with trying to find the reasonable boundaries of what this cartridge is capable of doing as anyone.   I just wonder if we aren't selling it short through self-imposed ignorance.

I do know that with careful handloading I am able to make my 4" .357 Magnum legal for hunting any big game animal in the state of Utah (which would include mule deer, elk, black bear, and even moose.)  Notice I said "legal," not "advisable." The .357 Magnum has long been considered one of the finest man-stopping cartridges in the world and I would guess that men are tougher animals to kill than deer.



Edited by lucznik - February/13/2008 at 23:43
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 08:58
I figure that the 357 is capable of deer hunting out to 100 yards....especially if it was fired out of a rifle. I never used my 357s to hunt with..as a matter of fact, I always wound up trading them for rifles eventually, for lack of use. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 12:32
no-- men are easier to kill than a deer, thats why the military only uses .223 varmit guns. FMJ no less. shot mulies with 357,41,44,45LC,454,35 remington, 30-30,7/30 waters, and there is quite a step in differences with little over lag as in rifles, (not much difference between a 308 and 30-06). the time and effort to go get a mulie is the same regardless of the caliber, so why bother with a good target pistol like a 357. a good scoped 357 in a 8inch smith is a bit different than a 4 inch smith, differences such as these are much more apparent in pistol hunting than rifle hunting. and extend the range of usage, any shot with a handgun past 50 yd, (with any caliber) starts into the iffy catagory. The stalking part is much more like bow hunting, at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 16:42

After having lived with one of the larger S&Ws for over 24 years, I am not seduced by the hype of the .357 or .45.  I find the .45 much flatter to carry, holds half again as many rounds.  The .357 barks louder and when fired at close quaters produces a helluva flash and basically flashbangs you in a darkend room.  I know a lot of people who carry guns, but I can't think of anybody who uses a large .357 for a carry gun.  It takes a shoulder holster and a field jacket to keep the thing under wrapes.  The big ones are hard to conceal and are slow compared to other guns.  Hint: Why don't you see PPC guns based on N-frames?

How many people have shot so much as a possum with a .357????  How about a Dog or a deer? What range and what bullet?   

 
By the way... If you want to tell what a great carry gun the big .357s are how about some pictures?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

I figure that the 357 is capable of deer hunting out to 100 yards....especially if it was fired out of a rifle. I never used my 357s to hunt with..as a matter of fact, I always wound up trading them for rifles eventually, for lack of use. 
 
An amazing testimony Ed.   Never used it... think its great... always got rid of mineLoco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 19:29
I don't follow you, silver.
 
I never used my 357s for hunting. I shot them until I got kinda bored with them. They make a huge noise, kick like hell, and after awhile I would find a rifle that I had to have, and always wound up trading in the 357s in order to get another rifle. I never said I thought they were great---I said given the choices at the front of this thread, I guess I would go with a six inch S&W for target shooting and what hunting the 357 is capable of.
 
I don't quite follow your crazy finger picture. It's fairly straightforward if you're following along. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 19:40
The only deer I've killed with my .357 was a head shot @ 10' and no need for pictures, it was the closer on a wounded one.
I have killed a lot of opossum with 9mm, .357 and most recently a .38 Special. I haven't taken pictures of them because I haven't thought about wasting electrons on those stinky vermin. Needles to say, a 158 gr +P .38 JLHP does the job on them.
Like the 1911 I find my Glock 20 far easier to carry than the wheel gun and nothing I load in either the .357 or .45 is as effective as the 10mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 20:15
k frames are used in ppc only because the frames are so much cheaper usually an old mod. 10 and 148 gr hbswc pimp loads are used as there is no power factor. if one isn't using a 45 with moon clips then it has to be an N frame to make the power factor. also no k frame can be shot as fast as an N frame given the same power level. miceulek (sp) holds the record with the N frame.
a 357 with 6-8 inch barrel will barely knock over a steel ram in IMHSA and 200 yds and iffy at 100, usually one goes to 357 max at this point. which is something you don't want to shoot in a 4 in. gun in the dark, in a small room.
i have a small ruger 5 shot 357 that carries well but its only loaded with +P special. it is virtually impossible to double tap, and stops being fun after 25-30 rds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 20:19
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

k frames are used in ppc only because the frames are so much cheaper usually an old mod. 10 and 148 gr hbswc pimp loads are used as there is no power factor. if one isn't using a 45 with moon clips then it has to be an N frame to make the power factor. also no k frame can be shot as fast as an N frame given the same power level. miceulek (sp) holds the record with the N frame.
a 357 with 6-8 inch barrel will barely knock over a steel ram in IMHSA and 200 yds and iffy at 100, usually one goes to 357 max at this point. which is something you don't want to shoot in a 4 in. gun in the dark, in a small room.
i have a small ruger 5 shot 357 that carries well but its only loaded with +P special. it is virtually impossible to double tap, and stops being fun after 25-30 rds.
 
I loved shooting PPC.
Those 158 gr +P's really kick in my Colt Agents and are not shot a whole lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 20:29
Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

How many people have shot so much as a possum with a .357????  How about a Dog or a deer? What range and what bullet?   

 
By the way... If you want to tell what a great carry gun the big .357s are how about some pictures?
 
Here is a BHP and my N frame that have accounted for a bunch of vermin and small game. I don't hide them under a T shirt but they carry just fine in the woods.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tennessean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:13
Range report - of sorts.
Taking silver's suggestion of getting comfortable at short ranges and low recoil .38s through my 6" GP100.  Have also tried some lower dosed .357s.  From only 10 yards out, I dance all around probably a 10-12" circle.  Tell my 15-year old all I know about safty, stance, sighting, grip, etc.  Hand him the loaded gun, and he starts plinking away in DAO getting 1" groups in the bullseye.  Didn't happen just once, but every time.  With rifles, scoped and iron sights, I can beat him every time.  I realize I'm new to the handguns, but anybody else experience this same thing?  I could hardly blame it on the ammo or the gun 'cause we were shooting the same thing.  Maybe my eyes have a problem with a short sight radius'.  I need some excuse to give him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:58
heres a good resource if your interested
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 11:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tennessean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:12
Dale - I printed out the first article you linked to.  Good reading.  One of the things I learned from it was to watch the thumb placement with a revolver because of the hot gases.  Your second link there is a very graphic reminder of why that is important.  Yikes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:22
yea -- can you believe that!!! I woulda never thought it was possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 12:23
Yes, and watch the slide on an auto as well, I have seen some uglies come from that as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tennessean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 16:26
I actually had that happen to me several years ago shooting a .40 auto for the first time.  No beavertail safety, hand too high on the grip.  Slide took the skin right off the web between my thumb and pointer.
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