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Bedding Actions |
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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The barrel is free floated. Had a bump on the old stock and I couldn't get consistent groups, so I free floated it, and the accuracy came down to what it is now. Now it has a new stock, but the accuracy hasn't changed. I would like to be it, just to make sure the action fits correctly and the recoil lug is taking all the recoil and not other parts of the action.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Hearing that news I would recommend to at least bed it but I'm also a big fan of pillars also. I doubt it will change the accuracy if the barrel is floated. Good shooting and luck in your endeavor. I also don't know what its like where you are but up here you can get a decent accuracy gunsmith to bed your rifle for about $75. Not really much to spend at all in my opinion.
Focus Edited by Focus - January/07/2008 at 15:56 |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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Good points focus.
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sinsir
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/02/2007 Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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just my $.02 - i've only done 2 bedding jobs, both with good results. listen to rifle dude !! use the clay to dam up, or block where ya don't want the epoxy, and use plenty of the release agent .. coat it let it dry, coat it again, let that dry, and coat it again ... no kidding, the epoxy is tough as nails, better safe then sorry. most important - take your time, the better the prep, the better the results
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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I will be curious to see how your rifle shoots after bedding. I just thought about it, but your rifle is a Mauser, which means the recoil lug has the front bedding screw integrated into it, which means you cannot pillar bed the recoil lug. I would be hesitant to pillar bed the rear only.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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Could you explain the problem with the pillar bedding on a mauser? I just want to understand it. I was really only planning on bedding the action, but I am intrigued by the idea of the pillars. Could I bed the action, and then install pillars later? Could I install them with out bedding them?
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I believe that some military Mausers were pillar-bedded into laminated stocks, at least at the tang bolt. In 1942.
Nothing really space-age here, except the chemistry of the epoxies used. I think you should try to bed the reciever and maybe a few inches of the barrel under the chamber, letting the barrel float from there on out. Just get it centered up as previously described, leave clearance in front of and under the recoil lug by taping it. Forget pillars on this one.
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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The front recoil lug is where the screw inserts to hold the stock to the receiver, so there is very little clearance to hold a pillar and virtually no flat surface for the pillar to seat on, as the lug is slim and long. I just looked at the pics. of your rifle and the lug is a bit larger than some I have seen and much larger than many production rifles. You may be able to get by with a very short custom made pillar, but still, I am not sure you have enough clearance. In general, I nor do most professional gunsmiths pillar bed Mauser actions, for this reason. It would also depend on the stock and the clearance available, but the forces placed on the lug that would be transmitted to the pillar and then to the stock, would in my opinion, create a torquing action on the stock that may affect accuracy in the long run. Just my opinion.
Edited by Dolphin - January/08/2008 at 08:33 |
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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My experience with pillars involve the savages so these guys with mauser experience have more knowledge than I.
Focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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Savage on the rifles that they pillar bed, is just aft of the recoil lug, not integrally into it. I guess what I am saying is, if you pillar bed with a short pillar into the recoil lug, as you fire a bullet in a high power rifle, you now have a long lever, the recoil lug and pillar bed and screw, to which two forces operate against. The recoil and circumferential torque in the opposite direction of the bullet spin, that is now magnified by the length of the lever, that would not be the case, if the pillar bedding was not integrated into the recoil lug.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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I think I will just bed the action for now. I will just have to make sure I don't tighten the screws too much. Thanks for all the help.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I didn't intend to downplay the effectiveness of pillar bedding, it is a great system, but works best on actions with longer screws than your Mauser. Incidently, the pillar in the rear of the military Mausers that have them was probably installed expressly to prevent crushing the wood and subsequently bending the tang of the receiver if the rear screw was overtightened. I think the front of the bottom metal usually has a shoulder that contacts the bottom of the recoil lug upon tightening the front screw, for the same reasons,.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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The front does have a shoulder on it, but the rear does not have any type of pillar. Maybe I could get or make a pillar for the back so I don't crush the wood or the bed.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I don't know if the commercial Mausers used them or not. All it is is a piece of heavy gage steel tube. I think you should determine it's correct length by assembling the action, magazine well and floorplate assembly outside the stock. The right length will be obvious when the whole works fits together. Make it a tiny shade longer, so it bottoms out before the mag well does, when the front screw is snug. If you cut it too short, the receiver will bottom out on the mag well and the rear tang will bend, or at least flex as you tighten the screws.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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Well, I finally got around to getting some devcon, and prepping my rifle for the bedding job. Here are a few pics. I am looking at doing the actual bedding later tonight or over the weekend.
Will post some more as I do the job. Thanks again for all the tips and advice.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Looks like you're off to a good start and understand the importance of the prep work, Andrew! Good luck, take your time, and don't let anything distract you from your work, and it should turn out just fine! At this point, you might want to go ahead and stick some electrical tape along the top edge of the stock next to the action inletting so the epoxy that squeezes out between the action and stock will be easier to clean up.
Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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OLRVRAT
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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I read somewhere ( can't remember where though) when bedding a mauser action they recommend you bed about an inch of barrel in front of the recoil lug.
Has anyone else heard of this or had any experience with it?
Good luck!
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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That's done frequently with a variety of actions, and in fact Helo is planning to do that very thing, as evidenced by the fact he roughed up his inletting forward of the recoil lug and has a clay dam forward of that area in the stock. I'll generally bed the first 1" - 1.5" of barrel on the straight section right before it begins to taper. The only actions I typically don't do this are solid bottom single shot bolt actions, where there's plenty of bedding surface to provide good support for a heavy barrel.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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OLRVRAT
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Guess i should 've read page 1 of the post. Then you wouldn't have had to explain it twice!
Sorry bout that.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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Well, I did the deed. See how it turns out in the morning. I forgot to take a pic of the stock with the mud in it before I put in the action. The devcon is nice to work with. It is like peanut butter instead of runny. The left over pile sure heated up though. You have about 45 minutes to work with it, then it sets up pretty quick. It is plenty of time to do what you need to do.
For some reason, it won't let me upload pics right now, so I will post them as soon as it will let me.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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