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Barnes TripleX NOT stopping deer? |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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its the same as ballstic tip and i dont like them on deer either, but if you are a head shooter they may be just what the dr. ordered, i shoot body shots and they are terrible when they hit bone huge exit holes, i am very impressed with the accubond.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Longhunter
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/02/2006 Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Speer's 165 grain Hot Cor has been a very reliable deer and antelope round in the .30-06 for many years. I recommend it highly. While Speer doesn't get the high-tech publicity, it does make very reliable bullets at a very reasonable price.
It's wonderful that the manufacturers are coming up with new premium bullets. However, it takes a while to get them right. For example, they may expand too quickly (original ballistic tips) or too slowly (original Winchester Fail-Safes) or foul barrels (original X-bullet).
I enjoy working up loads for the new bullets, but grab the Speer reloads whenever I head out for deer or antelope. Large and/or dangerous game is a different ball game, of course. The 250 grain Nosler partition in .338 caliber worked fine on a large brown bear. |
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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I deserve that scolding I guess. I picked up some ballistic silvertips, but haven't shot them yet, so I don't know whether or not I like them yet. I also picked up some of the new federal "fusion" bullets (looking for comments on those if you got 'em) in 165 gr. I'm pretty sure that black "coating" on the ballistic tips won't foul out my barrel like moly would, but again, if you've got comments on those, I'd love to hear 'em. I really appreciate all of the advice, it definitely gave me some new ideas. Pyro, I looked for some Scirocco's at my local BPS, but they were out. Guess I will get some from competitor or competitor and just wait for them to show up on my doorstep. I'm a sucker for instant gratification though!
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Sorry about the "competitors" in that last post. Didn't mean to offend, mr. Chris.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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the fushions seem to work on deer from what ive seen, i really like the accubond
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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We need to remember to remember to balance our bullet choice with the game and conditions we are hunting, and with the velocity we are running them at. A .30 caliber 165 grain Ballistic Tip (or ANY bullet for that matter,) bullet fired from a 30-30 at 2200 f.p.s.is not going to behave anywhere near the same as the identical bullet fired at 3000 f.p.s. from a 300 Ultra Mag. Therefore, blanket statements, such as "this bullet is good but that one isn't" are meaningless without quantifying impact velocity as well as identifying the critter taking the hit. For example, a particular bullet at a certain velocity might expand quickly or fragment for fast kills on deer, but go all to pieces on a big bear's shoulder. failing to even get inside the chest cavity where the animal really lives. By the way, I would advise against taking head shots as a general rule. The head is a small target that moves around a lot, and the potential for gruesome wounds such as shot off jaws and noses is just too high in most cases. Keep 'em in the chest cavity for clean, high- probability kills. |
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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That's something I haven't really thought of Mr. Ronk, but it's food for thought. It has been my experience that when I am shooting head/neck shots, I either kill instantly or miss cleanly. I haven't (at least not yet) had to trail anything that I have head shot. I did have a bullet go through the head and hit another deer that I had to go find, but that was a once in a lifetime shot! I will caveat that by saying I won't try a head shot past about 150-200 yards. At those distances, I agree that the chest cavity is the only way to go. I have a 300 ultra mag, and I rarely use it anymore as all I really hunt is whitetail and that rifle is just TOO much for whitetail. That thing is a monster! I agree that blanket statements won't cut it, so that is my fault for not specifying what I am shooting. I have rem 700 5R in .308 Win. I was just asking those folks out there that might hunt with a .308 to weigh in and tell me what works for them. I don't ever want to lose another big 'un!
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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in the .308 cal family unless its a magnum i like the results i get with a 150gr sierra prohunter, when i step up to a magnum i like to go 180gr, i have used the 150's to take elk with no issues in 30-06
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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My experiences are similar. I've killed elk with 150 Hornady Spire points at 3010 fps in a 30.06 and 165 Ballistic Tips at I think around 2800(?) Can't remember offhand. Both were broadside chest cavity shots at less than 200 yards. Both were clean kills with massive destruction to the lungs, and NO meat damage. I wouldn't try to break a big bull's shoulder with either bullet though, or try to angle through any elk on a quartering shot.. For broadside shots in the ribcage though, you can get away with a relatively fragile bullet with very good results. Just don't try to push the envelope of their performance when you need deep penetration. THAT is where Barnes Xs and Sciroccos and Fail-Safes step in. I've heard that Pyro's Accubonds are kind of in-between; a great all-around performer. Haven't used 'em yet though... |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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they take all the great things about the ballistic tip and turn a complete 180 with the exit hole size, they fly straight and they retain 70-75% weight so far i have been happy with the accubond but i still prefer sierra pro hunter and game kings.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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No worries, we had a bad problem when we first launched O.T. with our competition blatantly spamming our forum, so I put all of their names in the bad word filter. The software automatically replaces any word I put in the filter with whatever word I put in to replace it. I have taken many of them out because we really don't have any competition and the spamming has stopped. I assume you mentioned M i d w a y which is no big deal because they are mainly reloading and most mentions of them are in relation to reloading. I'll remove from the filter now. |
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Skunk
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/05/2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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ah you very smart feller mr chris farris, competitor cannot compare to your mighty swfa for optics prices, and your selection is hands down better than theres, your right about them they are mostly parts and reloading and other stuff not optics.
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Let me give you my two scents worth
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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That's what I was talking about. Just bullets. Not scopes. I've got some accubonds on order!
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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accubonds +3 from what I have seen from them they have worked really well.
But with the bullet theory . There is a time and place for every bullet on the market. My bullet choice is. 165gr nosle ballistic tip for yote,crows,and anything small. 165 hornaday sst all the above 165 nosler accubonds deer, yotes, crows anything around a deer size. "My favorite load so far" 180 nosler ballistic tip deer 'sometimes' all the above 180 hornaday sst deer, yotes, crows anything around a deer size. This bullet is a little stronger that Noslers BT 200 TSX pretty much anything. 200 Nosler accubonds same as above. 200 speer hot core. they make crows go poof Now this is just how I see and use the bullets I shoot from a 300WM
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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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A 200 grain bullet from a .300 Weatherby magnum for crows? WOW! I don't think you'll have too many cripples to chase down, Bigdaddy! That combination would make COWS go poof! |
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flyspy1
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/18/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Totally off topic, and you can reply in a different thread if you like, but how did you guys fare in 'bama this weekend BigDaddy?
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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I took out an armadillo,saw 18 turkeys alot of deer crap and 1 yote.Oh yeah i got chased but a heard of pissed off cows.
It wa a slow weekend for deer's for some reason.
the 200gr was just to see if i cold hit one from 312 yards away.layed down pulled trigger gun went boom crow went POOF and all was good in my little world.
Edited by Bigdaddy0381 |
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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Guys, remember that it's a huge mistake to make any generalization about bullet performance -- good or bad -- based on a sample size of one. One anecdotal experience proves nothing, because there are just too many variables, not the least of which the fact that individual animals are subject to react unpredictably to a perfect shot. I'd venture to say you could take any decent bullet available and someone out there has had a bad experience with it, even on animals it was specifically designed to be used for. Obviously, you want to match the bullet design to the animal and not select a bullet grossly too tough or too fragile for the size animal you're hunting. That being said, even though the TSX is a tough controlled expansion bullet designed to retain most or all of its original weight and penetrate, it isn't too tough for reliable expansion on deer. Sometimes an animal just possesses a supernatural will to live and will run a good distance despite perfect bullet performance in the vitals. I've shot a few deer that traveled more than 200 yards only to find picture perfect bullet performance -- completely wrecked lungs and heart, large exit hole, etc. Why certain animals can travel unusually long distances despite catastrophic bullet damage is a mystery, but it happens every now and then. I've found that the most reliable way to drop a deer in its tracks while still attempting a high percentage shot with large margin of error is a shot directly into the shoulder. Break the shoulder(s) and the animal cannot stand up, plus, the lungs and major arteries are destroyed in the process. If you miss the shoulder, you still have a hit in the lungs or heart. The only problem with a direct shoulder shot is that often, it totally wrecks all the shoulder meat, so I've gone back to shot placement directly behind the shoulder.
My current go-to deer bullet is the Accubond, because so many of my rifles really shoot well with it. I've always had excellent results with the AB, both in terms of accuracy and terminal performance, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the Barnes TSX on deer, if a particular rifle shoots it well. I think the TSX is ideally suited for animals a little larger than deer, but it still expands well on deer sized animals and I've seen quite a few deer drop right in their tracks when shot with TSXs. There are no surefire, 100% predictable rules of thumb pertaining to bullet design and reactions to fatal shots when you're dealing with wild animals, provided you don't select a bullet that is grossly out of proportion to the animal. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Great post, Rifle Dude. It sounds like something I might have written myself! One additional benefit of a shoulder (joint, not blade) shot is that the shattered bone fragments blow through the chest cavity, often causing about as much damage as the bullet itself. As you mentioned, it does make a mess of some of the meat, but it can sometimes prevent the loss of an entire animal. Acceptable risk,I guess. One last point I'd like to make is to mention the fact that the "point of shoulder" (joint) should NOT be used as an aiming point on an animal that is quartering away from the shooter. Such a hit can wreck that shoulder, but leave one good one, creating a wounded but still very much ambulatory deer, without the bullet ever getting inside the chest cavity. Try to break the FAR shoulder on a quartering- away animal. The bullet has to get through the lungs first , but that's okay. |
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Teds post nailed a few good points, up here where I hunt you don't want to see a deer go far as the wet bogs and really thick evergreen regrowth areas can swallow a deer and sign up like a black hole. A slightly high shoulder shot will often give you a drt animal as the spine dips down right at the shoulder blade and the shock will kill instantly. Loose a little burger but don't spend the day looking for a deer. Another is bullet design and using just one episode as an example of performance. I think the old nosler partition is the best bullet for expanding at differing velocities and always giving superb penetration. That said they are real hard to get accuracy out of some times. Accubonds seem to have that accuracy, don't deform in the magazine and really turn insides to soup. They seem to be my new favorite and don't come apart even on heavy bone hits. I have a mental block on monometal bullets and simply will stay with high integrity expanders till the lead gets banned and I have to go that direction. Sorry to hear about your buck, sometimes if you got one really bleeding and you think its a good hit, stop and make yourself give him some time.......they often bed if the following stops and stiffen and loose adrenelen as they bed. Later (1/2 hr or more) you can sometimes find them not far from where you stopped and waited. Don't do this however if you are in a heavily hunted area, someone else will pick up the blood trail and recover your deer.
Focus Edited by Focus - December/01/2007 at 17:58 |
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