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Scope rating scale

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koshkin View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/29/2007 at 12:22
We keep on having various discussions about scope rating scales.  T-bone had the original version.  Chris has put a lot of time and effort into making his own scale.

I generally agree with Chris' version, although there are always points of contention.  The biggest arguments stem from the fact that we all look for different things.

I think I will try to come up with a more complicated version of the scale that will assign several ratings to each scope in different categories.

Here are the categories I am thinking of:

  • Optical quality (resolution, color accuracy, contrast, stray light suppression, etc.)
  • Mechanical quality (W/E adjustments, toughness, etc)
  • Usability (eye relief, field of view, mounting ease, reticle selection, etc)
  • Customer Support
Any other categories you can suggest?

To ward off the arguments before they start: I am looking for input on the categories, not scopes. 

This table will only contain the scopes I am reasonably well familiar with, and will only be a reflection of my opinion.  I would like to avoid the bickering that Chris has to go through when everyone complaints about his scale being wrong.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 13:24
I like this idea, although I'm wondering how much bickering you'llm have to listen to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ND2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 13:45

Koshkin -

 

I think this is a good idea/concept also, and I have one recommendation.  Often times, all of the above characteristics are lumped together adn evaluated when making a decision on the scope's VALUE.  Perhaps you could sum up as to the best value under $300, $500, $1000, etc.   Clearly value is subjective, but also is the importance of resolution vs. contrast, as an example.

 

Just a thought...good luck with this!

 

ND2000

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 14:16
some type of weighted average would work better, or---- use a neural net fuzzy logic routine and assignment a membership function to each catagory with some type of scaling with a one to one mapping from product to property, this would remove the "hard" set classification between catagories (when does a river become long) problem inherent in these types of comparison and give it more of a Venn diagram, union or intersection set function. Thus hard set values such as glass would be soften or moderated as by ND2000 suggestion of value.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 16:56
What would be helpful is that next to each scope we could put a MSRP and a street value, so that members could pick the best scope for their budget.

I think we also need to differentiate the lines of scope rather than lump them into one category.  What comes to mind are brands like Sightron, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell.  I know that some are already there, but others like Sightron or Nightforce are all one rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 17:56
Thanks for the comments.

While I can note the street prices (I do not think MSRP has much informational value), I was hoping to not address value proposition.  It is a deeply personal thing that depends on what is important to you and how much money you have.  I will certainly talk about what I consider a good deal for my needs, same as I will only address the scopes I have familiarity with and rank them in accordance with my preferences.  I have no wish to try to come up with a universal value scale.  That would be an exercise in futility.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 18:50

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I would like to avoid the bickering that Chris has to go through when everyone complaints about his scale being wrong.

ILya

 

As my aussie friends say, "Good on ya, mate" 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 18:53
Chris, is there a way to post a table (other than as a picture)?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 20:11

ILya,

 

I think you have it pretty well covered.  I can't wait to see the results.  It will be most interesting.

 

Have you enough information to do the same sort of list, with appropriate criteria, for binoculars?

 

I appreciate the information you share with us.

 

Steve

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 20:36
Originally posted by ND2000 ND2000 wrote:

Koshkin -

 

I think this is a good idea/concept also, and I have one recommendation.  Often times, all of the above characteristics are lumped together adn evaluated when making a decision on the scope's VALUE.  Perhaps you could sum up as to the best value under $300, $500, $1000, etc.   Clearly value is subjective, but also is the importance of resolution vs. contrast, as an example.

 

Just a thought...good luck with this!

 

ND2000

 

value good call i agree but as you say its subjective.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 20:48
I have played with quite a few binoculars, so I can put together something, but the topic has been covered fairly well by birders.  Besides, I tend to prefer lower magnification binoculars, while most other people tend to gravitate toward higher magnifications.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 20:53
let me clairify something here, when i say value i guess what i want to know in your opinion is the glass worth the price, or is it a great deal or is it a rip off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 22:22
I think once we see the scale with the notation of a street price, we'll be able to make that call for ourselves.
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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 22:28
I will probably note street price on a few scopes of configurations that are of interest to me.  If I try to catalogue the price of every model in every line, I'll be at it until I turn old and grey.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 22:32
Perhaps some of us could help with that.  I was just thinking about how much the ATN scope go for and then hearing others experiences with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2007 at 22:40
ATN scopes' value proposition is very simple to describe: whatever they go for is way to much.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2007 at 03:23
Tagged for responses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2007 at 03:42

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

ATN scopes' value proposition is very simple to describe: whatever they go for is way to much.

ILya

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Thanks ILya

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2007 at 08:40
i've looked thru an ATN at a gun show, not at all impressed, and then the price, yikes what are they thinking ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2007 at 10:29
I look forward to seeing your conclusions, ILya!  I think what you've outlined so far is a pretty formidable task as-is, especially evaluating mechanical quality/durability, since unless you had an obvious tracking problem, you'd almost have to try to make a scope fail to really determine this.  So, I'd stick to the criteria you already have if I were you.  As you said, "value" is such a subjective measure that will vary widely depending on individual preferences. 

Edited by RifleDude
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