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Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56 |
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CWPINST
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/01/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: May/26/2007 at 12:13 |
For those who have experience with this scope, how does it compare in extreme low light to the Zeiss Victory, Swarovski, or Kales. I looked at one yesterday. The contrast was outstanding! I called Zeiss about it. They said that the Victory had thinner lenses and transmitted more light........about 99%.....how can that be? I have a 4200 and I know how well it does at near dark, but then I also remember when I thought that a Vari-X-II was the bees knees at dark. Those were indeed the "dark" ages!!!! Just how much better is the Conquest 3-12x56 or any of the others compared to the 50mm 4200 at dark?
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If it ain't accurate at long distance, the fact that it is flat shooting is irrelevant.
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CWPINST
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/01/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Sooo, no one has any experience with this scope?
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If it ain't accurate at long distance, the fact that it is flat shooting is irrelevant.
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Bear250b
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/22/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Big difference betwen the Diavari,Swarovski PV's and high end Kahles. The Conquest does not compare at low light and resolution. The Z-plex is better then regular plex, but you might want a #4 which I belive you can order on the Conquest which will help for low light.
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Slacker
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CWPINST
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/01/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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With the #8 reticle in the FFP, it gets pretty large at 7 power and above. The reason that I ask the question is that when I compared my 4200 to a Swarovski 4x16x50mm at dark I really didn't see much of a difference. Certainly not $1200 worth of difference. There is however a huge difference between my Leupold Vari-X-III's and the 4200, but I really didn't see much of a difference with the Swarovski. At some point you are paying a lot more for a small difference in performance. I guess, like most, I am looking for that price/performance "efficiency curve".
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If it ain't accurate at long distance, the fact that it is flat shooting is irrelevant.
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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4200's are very bright for the money - but the conquest may give you a slight advantage.
the kahles KX will be brighter than the conquest in my opinion.
the #4 reticle is wonderful for lowlight.
good luck and let us know what you think.
the zeiss is a fine scope. without a doubt.
J |
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CWPINST
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/01/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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No doubt that the Conquest line is not in the same league with the Zeiss Victory, Swarovski PH, etc. lines BUT could there be that big of a difference between the 3x12x56mm models? In other words, it is obvious that a 3x12x56 Victory must be brighter than a 3x9x40 Conquest, 4200 etc, but when comparing similar "size" models, will you see that much of a difference at 45 min. after sunset? One would think that at some point you begin to pay a whole lot more for an almost insignificant increase in performance. Like most folks, I guess I am looking for that point of diminishing return. I really don't want to spend nearly 1K on a 3x12x56 Conquest if I will not get any more performance than my 3.5x10x50 Elite 4200.
I have seen the difference between the 4200 and a similar size Vari-X-III at dark, but i am wondering if the jump to a similar size Zeiss Victory will be as significant at near dark. The reason that I keep harping on low light performance is that in our state, shooting hours end at 1 hour after sunset. The latest that I have taken a deer is 57 min after sunset, but there was a bit of moon that evening and the shot was only about 70 yards in the open, however I have taken many at around 45 min after sunset. Under the right conditions (open fields, clear evening, some moon, short distances, etc) it is a very doable thing. However, the more low light performance I can get, the better. Thanks |
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If it ain't accurate at long distance, the fact that it is flat shooting is irrelevant.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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The conquest gets my vote as best bang for the buck.....yes there are
better ones, but that optics pyramid just keeps getting steeper.....and
more pointy I believe you will see
increasingly less optical difference for increasingly more $. The mid
level scopes like the conquests - 4200's - Monarchs are where you see
the last really big noticable optics jump and after that its ultra fine
refinements......maybe one more line on an acuity chart, or even part
of one.....maybe a couple more minutes in fading light.
focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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size doesn't always matter - just because it's a 56mm objective, doesn't mean that it's gonna be a huge jump in brightness.
it DOES give you slight advantage at higher power in the lowlight.
if you need 8+ power or so to make long shots in the dark (not recommended), you need a bigger bell -
you can acheive a fine result in the lowlight w/ a 40 or 44mm scope at 5-6 power.
there is a noticable difference in the victory and conquest lines. but the conquest is still a great scope.
J |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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could be wrong here, but zeiss doesn't make a conquest in this configuration-- I think your referring to the Diavari swfa has on their hit list. In any case that scope is so much better than a conquest-- anyway they both have plastic knobs, and for the same amount you can get some really nice turned brass ones with laser hash marks for the same price on a USO |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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they do make a 3-12x56 in conquest - it's pricey, for a conquest.
i would take that money and buy a 50mm kahles KX and have better glass/coatings/construction, if i were you.
J |
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Oh Dale....you and those plastic turret caps.......you still must not
have hit one with a mallet and than one of leupolds aluminum ones huh?
You'll find out which holds its shape and don't smash real fast.
focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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for 2k per scope no, i don't want any plastic, --- but now that I'm started, -----with the comments that leo has always ridden on its laurels -- in this forum ---- the humour to me seems why no hits on Zeiss??? plastic turrets aside, this is one optics company that really says take what we got or don't take and if you do pay dearly. if the products are so much better than the matching competitor, then so be it. Until leo introduced their 2007 line, zeiss had kaka for reticles, and the diavaris ffp were as much fun as a toothache. Not saying leo is that great, but who is really sitting on their $$$$ signs. Abstract comments that the Zeiss military optics are better, etc, only mean something to me when the country that uses them has a military. Were the procurements bid out to an outside contractor??? doubt it.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Conquest I just bought was $589.....long way from 2K....huh? You think
leupold has better optics than conquest in the same price range?
Benchrest shooters are now freezing the reticles on target leupolds at
an alarming rate....wonder why? Majority of shooters that take the time
to buy and compare the different scopes in the mid priced range rate
leupold behind 4200
elite -
conquest - monarch in optical quality.........I know I do......look at
your TBone scale right on this site. IMHO conquests have a bigger FOV -
better more scratch resistant outside finish - brighter optics - more
resolute optics - an easier, faster to use and adjust ocular focus -
the power on the ring is really what power its on - parallax is set for
100yds where most actually shoot not 150yds - the reticle is etched and
stays black when exposed to sun reflection....the leupold turns a
pretty golden bronze - leupolds flare out much faster when at an angle
to the rising or setting sun.......I still think you need to take a
conquest cap and a leupold cap and smack em' both real good with a
hammer.........let me know how it comes out.........
focus Edited by Focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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i gotta side w/ the mob - zeiss is a better scope all around -
compare EVERY price point to price point between zeiss and leupold, and there is no contest.
HOWEVER, people could learn a lot from leupolds VAST offering. sizes, reticles, etc. that is what leupold has going for it. and customer service.
but when you take identical scope to identical scope - there isn't a contest, at all.
J |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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talkin about the real zeisses not the toys --- thats why its called a mob don't need a T-bone scale got at least one of each, or have had and used extensively (scale and scope) take that back no swaros-- not pushin leo,--- definitley not pushin conquests--- your point is hammered home, although irrelavant, could whack the end on the sidewalk i guess although most hobby scopes would probably break, simply saying that zeiss modifies their products after the curve not ahead of it, if you like the conquest --its your money I'm sure now that the market has moved "forward" zeiss will be clearing out their conquests at bargin prices, as they introduce new product,-- hope its better, everybody wins. also hope they listen to the american market as they have using SFP in the new "varmit " scopes.
had word processor problems -- any one else having trouble with this site in the last 3 days?? Edited by Dale Clifford |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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i haven't seen a zeiss that was a toy - do they have a scope line i don't know about?
their LOW level scopes hang w/ the VXIII's - do you disagree w/ this? if so, you haven't compared them, Dale -
as far as 'following' the market trends or being behind the curve.......you are probably right. but they are leaps ahead in quality for THEIR bargan line. But what they lack in original ideas, the
compare a VXII to a conquest - pricepoint to pricepoint - and THEN see who's behind. not a fair fight. not even close.
plastic caps make it a toy? news to me. i break toys.......not conquests.
brother, not trying to step on toes or start a catfight - 9 out of 10 folks are wrong? i don't think so.
dale i enjoy your posts all the time - just trying to figure out why you don't like zeiss. it's a wonderful product.
J
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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zeiss only makes two models --- too much and too little. until very recently no choices in their reticles, the fine cross hair I had on my conquest was at least 3/8 MOA -- can't say on all the conquests never had 14 of them like leos. (at one time) looked for zeiss scout scope, darn, looked for close focus darn, looked for a target darn, looked for run of the mill 3x9 well I'll be darn. as far as hitting the turret cap with a hammer, all it took was 400-600 rds on an AR10 to trash the erector, hate to see what a hammer would have done, (but I'm sure the plastic turrets would have survived). Could have been just that particular scope who knows, could have sent it back , but then why bother when dealing with mediocrity? Can't say on new Diavaris as soon as a cottage manufacturer, makes a replacement for the conquest turrets will probably try one. As for the Z's too long, too heavy and only half the power range is usable, but damn those plastic turret clicks turn me on!!!!!
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Dale I try to debate features and points with ya.......but your
responses wander all over and never completely make sense to me. I
guess what turns me on is excellant optics for price range, consistant
tracking and holding POI, a decent reticle I can see in low light, and
its real nice when the scope fits a long action without off-set bases.
My conquests do all of this for me and never only offer half the power
range.....geez whats that about? I got over 3000 rounds under my
favorite and no erector problems......in fact no problems at all.
Leupold sat on their laurels and watched several scope companies move
right past them......simple fact.......now they are dumping the coin
slot adjustments and moving towards fast euro focus, and doing this
index lens matching......but they still aren't buying good enough
japanese lenses to compete with zeiss in their vx lll's.Yeah they got
good resale
value......they're light weight......they got lots of reticle
options......I don't contest their strong points.......I'm just
interested more in resolution - brightness - and contrast, in that same
price range.
focus Edited by Focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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like I say - not selling leos. debating features without parameter guidelines can only be a testamonial, the old ones may be a coin slot, but its not plastic, some like euro focus, if it doesn't turn the power ring at the same time. resolution -brightness (doesn't even have a meaning when talking scopes) contrast are meaningless unless a parameter measurement is there for comparison purposes.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Resolution, Brightness, and Contrast are what will make an optics buyer
choose one brand over another, a large % of the time. All you need are
two scopes to compare and a set of eyes to make the comparison. If one
model is sharper - clearer - or brighter you can make your own decision
no need for parameters just a comparator
with the scopes you wish to compare installed on it. Why do you think
so many threads are on here asking for comparisons of two or three
different scopes? Its the topic most interesting to most scope
shoppers......if enough people see a positive difference between two
given scopes you can figure theres a difference. GOD gave us all a
pretty good set of tools for evaluating optics........our eyes......I
listen and evaluate what I hear but I believe what I see. I don't sell
conquests, but I sure like using them
focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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