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Swarovski Z6 V/S Zeiss Victory Diavari |
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senewell
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Posted: February/27/2007 at 13:49 |
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I am currently in the process of building up a Remington Model 700 in .308 for big-game hunting & lots of range practice. I am trying to make it an all around gun that can be used for many purposes. Starting with a 700 LSS in .243 I am adding the following: 1. Hart 24" fluted rifle barrel in .308. 2. Pillar bedding of the Remington Laminated stock. 3. Blueprinting of receiver & bolt. 4. Jewell trigger. 5. Scope????? I have done a decent amount of research online and have narrowed my scope options down to two models, the Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6 and the New Zeiss 2.5-10x42 Victory Diavari. I was leaning towards the Swarovski until I found out that it really doesn't have a very good warranty (only 10 years and it appears to be somewhat limited in scope - pun not intended). With a scope this expensive, it really is ridiculous to not have a lifetime warranty, IMO. Everything else I like about it though. A lot! The Ziess looks good as well, but to my understanding this scope has the problem (as far as I am concerned) of the reticle enlarging as the magnification increases. (Am I right about this?) This wouldn't be as much of a problem in the field, but at the range when I am trying to shoot the top off of a bottle at 200 yards or shoot a small group at that distance, it would be. I like both of these scopes because of their wide magnification range, reasonably light weight, and because they can both be mounted in low rings. Can anyone advise me on my concerns here? If neither of these scopes will fit my needs for the reasons mentioned above, do you have any recommendations for scopes that would? Thanks.
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My immigration policy: "Good fences equal good neighbors," and lining the border with snipers equals no immigration problem.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Senewell, welcome to the OT.
I agree that the 10yr warranty does not do this scope justice in relations to its price. The Z6 offers a lower power at the bottom end of the range and a slightly expanded field of view and a rear focal plane, these are desirable fetures to some hunters. I like front focal plane reticles and the best low light glass possible, these are two features that the Z6 does not posess, so in relation to my prefrences in a hunting scope my choice would be to sacrifice the lower power advantage on the bottom end and a slight field of view and gain better glass and the front focal plane reticle. Both scopes are very nice and would make a exellent addition to any rifle. Good luck on your hunt and keep us posted.
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senewell
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I'm not too concearned with the 1.7 v/s 2.5 power diference on the bottem end of the magnification range. Maybe if I were putting it on a Lever gun. If I were doing that then the Swarovski 1-6 would be the clear choice for me, except for the warranty.
If the Zies were cranked up to 10x, how much of the target could I expect to be obscured by the #8 reticle at 100 Yards in inches, or in MOA? |
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My immigration policy: "Good fences equal good neighbors," and lining the border with snipers equals no immigration problem.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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senewell, Just a suggestion, but before I did #3, I would seriously consider just buying a "Predator" custom action from Stiller Precision Firearms. Stiller/Viper is one of the big names among competitive shooters. The Predator is a direct, drop in replacement for the Rem700, yet is better made, doesn't require any blueprinting, costs about the same and in some cases, less than the work required to true up the Remington, and will get much better resale value should you ever decide to sell the rifle!
http://www.viperactions.com/actions/predator_detail.htm
Again, it has the exact same footprint as the Rem700, so it will drop in to your existing stock with no modifications. It uses the same trigger assy as the Remington. You will also generally receive it quicker than the turn-around time for blueprinting the Rem action! It also looks cooler! In short, there's really no downside.
I feel you really couldn't go wrong with either of those scopes. I have no experience with the Z6, but own 3 Swarovski scopes and love them. A buddy of mine has the Zeiss 3-12X56 VM/V and it's a wonderful scope. Every scope I've seen from this series has been spectacular. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Set on 10x at 100 with the number 8 I would estimate about 4MOA.
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senewell
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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That seems like a lot when you are trying to shoot sub MOA groups. Just out of curiosity, why would you prefer this type of reticle magnification? What are the advantages? Just curious. Maybe I am missing something. Thanks. |
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My immigration policy: "Good fences equal good neighbors," and lining the border with snipers equals no immigration problem.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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I do not feel sub MOA groups are important in a hunting situation. I prefer to be able to see my reticle in the poorest light and have a fast aim at the target, to me having a front focal plane allows me to adjust this accordinly. I also do not hunt with a higher power very often, my scope is set at 6x and rarely used at 10x. I am not a varmint hunter only medium to large game. I will not hunt anything smaller than a deer or boar.
Edited by Trinidad |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Here is some shooting at the range I recently did with a 2.5-10 S&B set on 6x at 100M, this is a 3 shot group with a model 70 sporter taper super grade.
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Obi Wan Kenobi
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/21/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I own a 2.5-10x50 Diavari & I can't complain about its performance & warranty.
The thing that I really love about the scope is its light weight & compact. Great for stand hunting or stalking plus the low light performance is great.
Just my 2 cents. |
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senewell
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I totally agree with you in regard to hunting situations. That is a remarkable group that you shot by the way. When you say 4 MOA would be blocked at 10x, that would indicate ~ 4" at 100 yards, ~8" at 200 yards, and ~16" at 400 yards. Am I correct in this assessment? If not, what would the actual numbers be in inches? A high percentage of the shooting that I will be doing with this gun will be at the range, and I will quite likely be shooting at very small targets at long ranges to test my personal accuracy. I am somewhat concerned about obscuring small targets if the reticle gets too large. |
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My immigration policy: "Good fences equal good neighbors," and lining the border with snipers equals no immigration problem.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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You are correct on your calculations, for your main intended aplication you are better off with a rear focal plane scope. Kahles makes some very nice scopes that will better suit you in my opinion for example the CSX or you can go with the Z6. Best of luck and thank you for the compliment.
http://www.kahles.at/index.php?sprache=1&menu=18
http://www.riflescopes.com/products/51827/kahles_2.5-10x50_h elia_csx_30mm_riflescope.htm Edited by Trinidad |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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You may also like the CL, its a nice side focus 1" model with a RFP,with or without Multi-Zero, your preferance.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-1474-665-kahles-3-10x50-helia-cl-rifl escope.aspx |
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www.technika.nu
Optics Journeyman Joined: August/02/2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 611 |
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The big point with the Z6 is the low magnification, and if you don't need that I would prefer a Zeiss. The first focal plane is in my opinion a big advantage and notiing to be sorry for.
If your drop the no8 reticle and go for no 11 instead you won't have any problems to aim as extremely small objects.
Zeiss offers BDC as original item for all their scopes, and if you are into long range hunting or shooting the BDC with reticle no11 is great.
Regards Technika Edited by www.technika.nu |
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senewell
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Those are all interesting looking scopes. Does Kahles have a lifetime waranty? Do they have a reputation for good customer service? |
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My immigration policy: "Good fences equal good neighbors," and lining the border with snipers equals no immigration problem.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Yes and Yes, top shelf products for shure.
http://www.kahles.at/index.php?sprache=1&direct=news& ;news_id=137 |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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+1, Great point Hakan on the number 11 reticle. |
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oldguns
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/17/2007 Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Why is it when I look at the Zeiss website I dont find a reticle #11 listed for Diavari??
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Here is the current lineup of reticles for production scopes in the US, this may differ from production scopes in europ, I recall Hakan mentioning he had his instaled at the factory. I would recommend you to give Zeiss a call and they will lead you in the direction of obtaining the 11 in a Diavari. Exellent reticle, I had a thicker varient of this reticle, the #1 in a fixed power S&B.
http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/ec215ec 620626f1e852571d700377d7e Edited by Trinidad |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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The link in not working properly, the 11 is only available in the current classic production model not the diavari acording to the chart. You can see this by clicking on the victory then clicking on available reticles at the very bottom. These charts have been known to be wrong brfore though on small technicalities. I would call for the best info on the current options. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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OK,here is the latest chart and US production reticles.
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