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8X42 choice |
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thinkingman
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/13/2006 Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: January/26/2007 at 11:33 |
I've searched and read and read and searched. I am going to ask those with experience....Which 8X42 for hunting. I think I've narrowed it to Kahles, Vortex, or Minox HG. All are available from the SHOT show and all seem like good pieces. Concerns are...Kahles seems heavy. Minox looks too pretty to be rugged. Vortex is an unknown, at least to me and will there be a market or warranty support down the road? What would you do? Thanks |
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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I have no experience with the Vortex models but I have been impressed with both the Kahles and the Minox models that I have had the privelege to look through. I do not really think you can go wrong with either bin in terms of quality or customer service. There really isn't a wrong decision in this case.
Personally, I would like to give the Minoxs a go. I had a pair of their 7x42 BD BRs and was quite impressed with their optics, build quality and design. My only two "gripes" were a stiff focus wheel in cold weather and a particularly narrow field of view. The HG models are a step up from the BD BRs so I would expect better characteristics in both areas.
...and since we are talking about 8x42s in this price range I have to ask if you have considering the Meopta Meostar 8x42s. Their specs are more than comparable to the models you listed. Weight might be the only issue working against them. I do not know if they are on the Shot-show list though. |
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Frank
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lucznik
Optics Master Joined: November/27/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1436 |
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Vortex is in an interesting little conundrum.
They are preported to have optics and build quality that compares favorably with the "best of the best" but, only a very few know who they are and noone knows (or can even give a good, educated guess as to) how long they are going to be around. In other words, the lack the benefits of even basic name-recognition.
I've had individuals in the optics retail business tell me that Vortex is THE force to be reckoned with in optics today (just as their slogan states) and that they are only going to get bigger and better. These retailers may be absolutely correct but of course, these same people have a vested interest in convincing consumers to buy their onhand stock of these optics so...
I think that pricing is where Vortex runs into their biggest challenge. The prices for their top offerings are certainly favorable as compared to Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, etc., which is good. However, they are still in the $800 - $1000 range and for that kind of money, I'm betting most people are going to be more comfortable buying from established, well-known companies like Leupold, Bushnell, Nikon, Minox, Kahles, Pentax, etc. because the consumer will feel more confident that these entities will "undoubtedly" be around for the long haul. Vortex just feels like a bit of a gamble. In retail sales, offering a good value is only part of the issue. The biggest part is convincing the consumer that you offer the value they seek. Vortex may indeed be offering the best optics the world has ever seen but, that alone won't gaurantee their continued longevity.
Another issue is that Vortex doesn't have much of a presence in the various sporting-goods retail stores so; it can be really hard for anyone to try one out without buying sight-unseen. I have yet to ever see a Vortex optic in any store anywhere. They also have not been real zealous about getting their products into the hands of the various magazine writers' hands for "testing and evaluation." Many online retailers offer money-back guarantees if you aren't satisfied with your purchase but, that still involves some hassle and still feels like a bit of a gamble.
I've been considering buying one of the Vortex Spotting Scopes but, I just can't seem to get over these issues enough to "take the plunge" so to speak. I have the feeling that I'm not alone in this.
So, I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, "are ya feelin' lucky?"
Edited by lucznik |
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What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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anweis
Optics Master Joined: January/29/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1148 |
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Vortex has many grades and prices of 8x42. I would not buy one of those without trying it first. The warranty on them is excellent, but who knows how long the company is going to be around.
Kahles and Minox have narrow fields of view. Meopta has a wide field of view. I would get the Meopta. |
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Bird Watcher
Optics Master Joined: August/30/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Vortex is selling their products through the Wild Birds Unlimited chain of stores, which is obviously geared towards the Bird Watching market.
They also advertise in Bird Watcher's Digest, which comes out bi-monthly. Their top-of-the-line optics are produced in Japan. Edited by Bird Watcher |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I saw a birder with a Stokes DLS 8x42 the other day. That is very likely to be my next binocular purchase.
ILya |
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Bird Watcher
Optics Master Joined: August/30/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Stokes DLS 8x42
www.vortexoptics.com/binoculars/view/74 Vortex $100 mail-in rebate good until 6-30-07. Edited by Bird Watcher |
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PaulN
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hi Guys,
I'd like to respond to Luczniks post. I intend this only to help you guys understand who we are. My name is Paul Neess, I've worked for Dan Hamilton and Vortex Optics for over ten years. I also have long experience as a professional hunting guide in Idaho, and help with sales and as a technical product consultant for hunting. I would like to address a few of the concerns mentioned, as they are certainly valid points.
First of all, a little company history is in order. Vortex Optics is owned by Dan Hamilton, a man with long experience in the optics business. Dan is also the founder and owner of competitor, a very highly regarded multi-line optics catalog/internet retailer in existence for over 20 years and still going strong. Although owned by the same person, Vortex is a very separate organization and is an optics manufacturer, not a retailer. However, Vortex borrows much experience and knowledge from those many years in the optics biz. Many of us here, such as myself, have experience tracing back to the early days with Eagle. I also feel that it's safe to say the Vortex brand is the future of the organization. There is incredible dedication and experience at work here, and I believe the Vortex name will be VERY well known in the near future. I don't blame anyone for having concerns about a new companies longevity, but in reality Vortex has much more experience than people realize.
Now, Vortex is a new name and we do have plenty of hurdles to overcome. Our dealer network is very rapidly expanding (check the dealer locater on the website) and issues of not being able to see our products will soon be a thing of the past. We do have many products out for evaluations with gun writers, and some have already been very favorably reviewed by experts such as John Barsness and Ron Spomer. Other positive reviews will surface very soon. Vortex Optics are intended primarily for hunting (except the Stokes sub-line), and the old misconceptions about Eagle and birding will take time to overcome. We realize all this, and are committed for the long term.
Lucznick touched on pricing, and I feel that is one of our top strengths. Our products range in price from $50 to over $800, and almost always represent some of the very best values in their price ranges. There isn't a better binocular on the market in the $700 range than our Razor. $200 ? Try to beat our Diamondback series.
Lastly, let me quickly touch on warranty and service. It's simple - we do it better than everyone. This is experience that came from Eagle; if you don't believe it, search out comments from the birders. You can expect exactly the same level of performance from Vortex the manufacturer.
I hope this may help understand Vortex, and I hope everyone can "feel lucky" about us !
Sincerely, Paul Neess Vortex Optics Edited by PaulN |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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It is great to have you on this forum, Paul! IMO, it always speaks wellof the manufacturer to be willing to come onto an open forum and represent their products.
Question for you: as far as optical quality goes, is there a difference between Vortex Razor and Stokes DLS? Which one is clearer/resolves better? Thank You ILya |
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lucznik
Optics Master Joined: November/27/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1436 |
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I would like to offer a hardy "Thank You" as well. I agree with Koshkin that it is commendable for you to come on the board and address various concerns directly.
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What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Paul,
Just want you to know I have the Razor 8X42 and I am VERY pleased with it! I totally agree it is hard to beat for the price... or for that matter 1.5 times the price! I wish you and your company great success. Although I haven't seen any of your other products, I believe you have a wonderful bino with the Razor! I had the same concerns before purchase, but I was impressed with your company's story in a recent issue of Bowhunting magazine and Tim was very helpful and very patient with my many questions before purchase! I believe as long as you keep customer service and quality at the forefront and get into more retail outlets (I can only hope maybe SWFA), people will quickly begin to associate the name Vortex with quality! |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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PaulN
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Guys,
Thanks much for the positive comments ! Rest assured, we will do our absolute best to continue offering quality products and great service at prices the average guy can afford. We also welcome the feedback and observations from knowledgable users such as yourselves. We also would certainly welcome the opportunity to work with SWFA, perhaps after we've been around awhile and earned their trust.
On your question Koshkin - I'd be very hard pressed to give either the Razor or the DLS the nod for optical superiority. Both are terrific, high quality binos made in Japan. Other than the obvious difference in chassis design, to me the deciding factor is the rate of focus. The DLS was designed with birders in mind, and has a very quick focus. As a hunter, I prefer the slightly slower focus found in the Razor. It allows me to feel that I have found the absolute perfect point of focus so necessary for long distance glassing.
I enjoy reading this board and hope to continue offering product details to you guys !
Sincerely,
Paul Neess Vortex Optics |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Thanks, Paul. I was very impressed with the optical quality of Stokes DLS that I saw, but the field of view of 8x42 Razor had me intrigued. I'll need to find a place where I can hold both to check out the ergonomics.
ILya |
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PaulN
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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ILya,
Yes, in the 8x42 size the Razor has a distinct advantage in FOV. It's quite mpressive to look through. Ergos of course will be your personal preference. If you've got bigger hands, you'll probably prefer the Razor.
PM me or call me at Vortex if you have any problem locating these, and I'll assist you in getting ahold of models for comparison. Have a great weekend; I'll check this thread next week !
Paul |
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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It always impresses me as well when representatives from the various optics' manufacturers step forth for their product and post on the various internet optics messageboards. My hat is off to you Paul.
I have to admit that the 8x42 Razor has me a bit interested as well. The field of view being the key spark to that interest. My current bin of choice is a Meopta Meostar 8x42. Its field of view is identical to that of the Razor. The huge field of view, both apparent and true, coupled with the large area free of distortion is what I find most appealing about this binocular. If the Razor has that same combination then I think you will sell quite a few of them. I am a bit tempted to order one to see just how good it is. Did you work out the issue with the focusing mechanism?
A potential customer,
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Frank
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Call me impulsive. I have a pair of the Razors on order and look forward to putting them up against my Meoptas. I will let you guys know shortly.
...and just so that it doesn't appear as if I am too biased, I did sell my favorite Nikon Venturer LXs after picking up the Meoptas...as well as two pairs of Leica Trinovids. |
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Frank
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Frank, I did the same thing. I ordered on blind faith based on a couple good online reviews, and the very helpful input I got from Vortex via email prior to purchase. In addition, I was inspired by the company founders' story where they took significant risk to do what they enjoy, knowing they had a difficult battle competing with serious big name competition. I feel good about supporting companies that provide an honest value, great quality, and good service and who also support various hunting organizations. I have not regretted my impulse purchase!
I haven't seen the Meopta bino outside of stores, but they did look very good compared to others inside stores. I too like the widest usable FOV I can get, which the Meoptas offer, and which is one of the main reasons for my purchase of the Razor 8X42. Edited by RifleDude |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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PaulN
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Frank,
Thanks for giving the Razor a shot ! The Meostars are also a very nice bino at a reasonable price, but I think you'll find the Razors to be a bit nicer and at a lower price. The issue with a slightly stiff focus was resolved long ago, and I hope you'll find the "feel" to be just right.
Paul @ Vortex |
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dclark
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/01/2005 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Paul,
Thanks for the information. I can't emphasize enough how important warranty service is to me in optics. I have had a couple of scopes made by well regarded manufacturers where they ignored major problems in their scopes, indicating that the scopes were within spec's. One could not be focused at 7X to resolve a standard 100 yard sight-in target. I got multiple lines on the target. Another one had so much flare that it was unusable if you looked in the general direction of the sun on a sunny day in the woods. Again, within specs. On this one I compared it side by side with several scopes including cheap bushnells, tascos and Leupold's. It was amazing. Everything was clear through all those scopes and you couldn't see a thing except flare in the problem scope.
That's why warranty means nothing to me unless the company has a reputation for actually standing behind their optics like yours does- as well as some others like Leupold and Swarovski. I am rooting for your Company!
Also, I would like to put a plug in for a quality roof prism compact offering in 6X or 7X with a 26 to 28mm objective. As far as I am concerned, the only excuse for a roof prism is that it enables manufacture of a compact binocular. The present standard 8X21 and 10X25 compacts are impractical for hunting, and, in my view probably for birding as well. The 6X30 models aren't really compact enough to be conveniently carried in a pocket. Anyway my vote goes for something like a 6X26 high quality roof prism with a 450' @1000 yard field of view.
My B&L Discoverer porro's are all I will ever need or want in a standard sized binocular, so my only need is for a really good compact. Maybe there are others in like circumstances.
Don |
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anweis
Optics Master Joined: January/29/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1148 |
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dclarck, Fujinon has 7x22 and 7x28 binoculars. I've heard that they are very good.
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