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If your life depended on it !?!?!

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 19:01
Originally posted by Stephanie Stephanie wrote:

Which gun and rifle would you put on the line?

 

 

 

After looking at this, your statement would imply two fireams is that correct? 



Edited by silver
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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hot30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hot30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 22:08

hey SILVER, 12ga. works for me..  I didnt see anything in Stephanies question about sawing up the bad guys car??

                 See ya in the forum, HOT 30

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 22:53
Originally posted by hot30 hot30 wrote:

hey SILVER, 12ga. works for me..  I didnt see anything in Stephanies question about sawing up the bad guys car??

                 See ya in the forum, HOT 30

 

There were some neighbors that were into free enterprise pharma distributership recently... 

 

So you have to understand concealement  verses cover  so by denying other people cover you change the tactical situation. So with the wheel man gone and the cops coming what would you do?



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hot30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hot30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 23:18

Why worry about NFA if your in the middle of the street sawing up cars??  I didnt know  Stephanies situation was in the middle of the street.. Her question, IMO was rather generic in context, tipycal.. unless you have more details on her delema than I do..  18.25"  patterns allittle better  at 10 feet than 4"..  Where does the conceilmant come into play??

 

                                   30

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 13:06
Originally posted by hot30 hot30 wrote:

Why worry about NFA if your in the middle of the street sawing up cars??  I didnt know  Stephanies situation was in the middle of the street.. Her question, IMO was rather generic in context, tipycal.. unless you have more details on her delema than I do..  18.25"  patterns allittle better  at 10 feet than 4"..  Where does the conceilmant come into play??

 

                                   30

 

Your the one making things up about being outside in the middle of the street, not me...

 

I can work this as urban, suburban, or rural.  It still workes out to speed, shock and violence of action.   If you can suppress the cover then you can suppress the fire.

 

I've patterned my shotguns with OO and # 4 buck.  I been in classes where patterning was a part of the class and watched other shooters patterns from regular guns and NFA guns. YMMV 

 

If you do not understand concealment or cover, then I can not expect you to understand movement either. 

"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 14:53
 works without much resistance
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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 19:30

Let's see...........

 

Problem inside the house.  That means we've pretty much screwed up every basic principle of home security and some person or persons has gained entry.

M4 carbine with collapsible stock. It stays bedside. It is the epitome of short and manueverable. No sights required.  It's a point and click situation.

Mag capacity. 

Close range terminal energy.

Lack of penetration of structure.  My neighbors ain't worth killing.............

 

Immedietly outside the home

12 gauge shotgun,

9 shot or better

backbored, forcing cone lengthened , fitted stock for point shooting.  Patterns 00 buck 18 inches or less at 45 yards.

Also deploys slugs for light armor ( cars and windshields )

 

Beyond that;

Cell phone, let the fuzz deal with it.

 

Always;

Sig 226 9mm.  Proper ammunition onboard.

 

Give me a choice of only two and I'll keep the pistol and trade all else for an AR10 with a scope.  No reason I'd need to solve an 800 yard problem but I could  

 

Stephanie I worry about you at times 

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hot30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hot30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 21:47

SILVER,  unless the car and driver you mentioned on your post of

   POSTED: 20 JAN/2007 at 18:58  was in the house, guess I cant read either !!

 Mike Macdonald explained the conditions on topic to a better degree, Id still use the 12 ga. in the house though!          ; 30

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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 22:12

Hot30,

 

I decided against the 12 gauge inside for a couple reasons;

 

As I described, the problem is that people not welcome are inside your dwelling.  They have to leave but the may have friends with them.  Now we have a multiple target situation.  I am not the fastest guy on the planet but after a  full years practice inside the house with a 12 gauge I cannot aquire multiple targets fast enough to survive a fight; there is too much length and weight to allow quick target to target transistion.  That does not even begin to address the recoil aspect.  Bear in mind I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 300 pounds, and the recoil still presents itself as a factor in speed and aquisition.  We're also wasting time delivering way too much energy on a soft target when we can do the same damage with a lighter weapon.  Remember, inside the home we want dead people, not deaf people.

The M4 allows multi shot target aquisition without the burdens of weight, length or recoil to slow me down.

Inside the home, 42 feet longest hallway,  I can aquire and hit multiple times as many targets as present themselves inside the space available.  Should the M4 run dry for some reason I can always drop it and transition to the 9mm, leaving the other guy with an empty weapon which also makes a very poor club.

 

Outside the house we're after accuracy, speed, and energy because the distances have increased.  I spent alot of time and some cash just to satisfy my curiosity and went to the junk yard...........er.....auto recycling center out here in the country and bought and shot up several cars.  I am really unimpressed with the mousegun, the 124 grain 9mm load out performs it on windshields, side glasss and side panels.

the 12 guage with slugs is king.

 

Again, give me just two and it's the AR10 and the 9mm.  the neighbors are 1/2 mile away anyway

 

Man that was long winded.

 

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hot30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hot30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 22:53

Mike you do say it better.. My neighbors are closer and I dont shoot "buck", I use BBs and yes "slugs" are king, the internal guard-rail of a car door doesnt stop it.. Try using full sized gabarge cans, the metal ones, there cheaper..  You are open minded

 

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rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rootmanslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2007 at 23:08
Benelli 12 bore tactical (the same one USMC uses)
AK47 (killed more people than any other weapon and it always works)
Kimber 1911 45 acp (pokes big holes)
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hot30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hot30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 00:32

Rootman, go BENELLI  !!!!!!!!!  If you think he or she is behind a door or wall, just move them!!!  My ol-lady puked when I took a hack-saw to mine..Benellis dont jam..

 

                     30

 

        who ever said , "if its too long", HACK-IT...  Laws dont apply when it comes to my family!!!!!!!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4T570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 06:31
rem 870, 12 ga, #1 buck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 07:52
I puke thinking about even doing that to my SBE. I guess it has too many turkeys and waterfowl under it's belt. It is at the front of the safe, that's for sure. So is one of my 870's, but barrels are comparatively cheap for those.

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 11:16

Originally posted by 4T570 4T570 wrote:

rem 870, 12 ga, #1 buck

 

+1

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 11:21
Originally posted by hot30 hot30 wrote:

Rootman, go BENELLI  !!!!!!!!!  If you think he or she is behind a door or wall, just move them!!!  My ol-lady puked when I took a hack-saw to mine..Benellis dont jam..

 

                     30

 

If it mechanical it will break.  It has been a while since I was in a Shotgun class, but the only two guns that did not go down were mine and a state troopers newer 870's.  That included a couple of  Benellis and 1100's YMMV

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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 11:48
Originally posted by hot30 hot30 wrote:

        who ever said , "if its too long", HACK-IT...  Laws dont apply when it comes to my family!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ten years and ten thousand and that does not even get to the legal fees at 200 an hour.  That's what got Vickie Weaver killed... I would have to question the judgement of someone who would even suggest breaking federal law in a public forum.

 

Let's just say for the sake of instruction someone does shoot some one with a non-NFA compliant firearm...  

 

You go from whatever hassles your local police department and prosocuter may want to put you through to cover their backs; and the resulting legal fees in a "clear" shooting. I figure It will cost me at least 5 thousand retainer in a justified shooting. Any sort of creative problem solving will cost extra

 

To now being charged with a federal crime with a circus of pleas.   Can you put up a ten thousand dollar retainer? Your lawyer will want to get paid up front.  What are you going to trade for jail time?  You might want to see if your lawyer will take your guns for payment as you are not going to be able to keep them.

 

Perhaps some of our friends in law enforcement could cite some examples?

 

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Stephanie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stephanie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 12:46
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

 

Stephanie I worry about you at times 

 

Here are a few reason I asked these questions.For a man this situation would be handled a lot better then how a women would handle it..Unlike the women that found the guy in her closet and shot him!  

 

Right?  "unless she is trained for this kind of stuff"

 

Every night what goes through my mind is what would I do if someone did brake in?!?!?

 

May be stupid, but real concerns!

 

  • Do I go for the gun?
  • Do I stay put "don't move"
  • Call 911  That's a givin I would do that any ways!
  • Do I hide? <----Yeah right I see that happening.
  • Exit the house?

 What would be a safe move..

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 12:48
if you have a gun grab it and call 911 but make sure and tell them you have a gun, otherwise barney fife will show up and pop you instead of the bad guy.
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Stephanie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stephanie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 12:53

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

if you have a gun grab it and call 911 but make sure and tell them you have a gun, otherwise barney fife will show up and pop you instead of the bad guy.

 

See I did not know that!   Thanks!

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