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off topic question about guns |
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ahuebel
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/28/2006 Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: January/11/2007 at 09:38 |
I know this is an optics forum but many of you seem to know quite a bit about guns. I do not know much about guns but I found this website that lists different calibers and what games they are appropriate for. http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm
I am looking to purchase a gun and scope and I want to get something versatile. My question is, what impact does the grain of the bullet have? From the little I know I would guess that it simply increases bullet velocity allowing you to shoot the same game at longer distances. It would be nice if I could get a gun that would perform closer to my current gun, (which I love) a .243 Browning A-bolt with a sako action, but perhaps allowing me to change bullets (or grain if that makes a difference) and hunt elk, should I be so lucky. I already have an idea of the scope I want for it thanks to people here on OT. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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this is right up my alley, when you look at a bullet, you of course need to be aware of caliber,(diameter of your bullet) and maybe more importantly than the weight of the bullet, what its made of, when you talk about bullet weight obviously the heavier the bullet the more foot pounds of energy you can apply to an animal, but to make the increase in weight worth it you must add speed to the equation, i.e if you have say 85 grain .243 bullet that say travels 3300 ft per second and it produces say 1700 foot pounds of energy @ 100 yds, if you take a 100 grain bullet from that same .243 and push it to that same 3300 ft per second you speed is the same for both bullets but the energy value with the 100 grain bullet of course will be greater. now to mention the other end of the bullet selection, you must first decide what the main use of your bullet is, i shoot white tail deer so a regular sierra spitzer bullet works just fine for me. i noticed you mentioned elk, and shooting an elk with a .243 is possible, but in my opinion you must be sure you can dispatch of the elk in a one shot mannor, which requires getting very close and lots of practice at the range. when i go after bigger animals i try to match the type of bullet i use to the type of game i am after, the tougher the animal the tougher your bullet needs to be. as far as you wanting to buy something close in performance to your .243 do you have any objection to going up in caliber size at all?? in you your case you want versatility, i like .25 caliber rifles, i think rounds like the 25-06 and 25 winchester super short magnum are acceptable for elk as well as deer and even varmint hunting, and the felt recoil is very similar to you .243. read it over and absolutly ask me more questions i live to talk about guns with people who are intrested in getting new guns.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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ahuebel
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/28/2006 Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Ok...thanks for the reply. Perhaps we can talk via PM or e-mail if necessary (if it gets too lengthy). I am expecting to go up in caliber. I just talked to a gun company here in Texas and they recommended a 7mm Rem mag. While I can get a lower grain bullet for that, it still seems like it would be on the upper end of what I want (power and recoil wise).
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i will send a pm and then we can talk
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i would actually entertain the chance to talk about guns to anyone in here!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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Chuck Hawks website gets alot of bad raps, but is actually very informative. I have interacted with him on multiple occaisions by e-mail and he is a very knowledgeable individual. He swears he does not accept money from any of his advertisers and by his review of the Tikka T3, I really do not think he does. His review was similar to mine, in that he did not like the cut out for the cartridge ejection as opposed to an action forged out of one piece of metal. The difference with my review is that it was positive and his was negative. Two different slants. But, I could still understand his reasonings. Good post by pyro6999.
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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7mm Mag is a great caliber and very versatile. It is more than you need. I'd consider the .260 Rem. Recoil isn't much more than your .243 but you can go up to 140gr bullets. Plenty of gun for elk up to 300 yards if you use a good bullet such as Nosler Partition. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i agree with you yates, the .260 is a great choice and was what i was going to recommend, although the 270 wsm isnt a bad choice either but i dont know how the recoil is on this round, i do know how it is on the 300 wsm and i know that there is a significant increase in recoil as compared to a .243, but the 270 wsm is so damn flat shooting its really impressive to me.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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ahuebel
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/28/2006 Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Wow...quite a bit of interest here on guns. Pyro I wrote you a PM before I saw others posted here. |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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Same here! |
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ahuebel
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/28/2006 Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Since others are also interested in discussing guns, I thought I'd post some of the things I shared with pyro in a PM. Basically I plan to make this gun a lifetime purchase to be used as my primary hunting weapon. While the vast majority of my hunting is white tail and ferral hog, I would like to have the ability to hunt elk. Pyro mentioned calibers such as a 25 win short mag or 6.5 rem mag. From the little I have looked, it appears that not all guns come in these each caliber. For example, the sako 85 hunter I believe does not come in a 7mm rem mag, but does come in a 7mm short mag, whereas the sako 75 hunter does come in the 7mm rem mag. Of the limited number of guns I have looked at, I like the sako 75 and sako 85 hunter.
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ranburr
Optics Master Joined: May/16/2004 Status: Offline Points: 1082 |
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I would just like to point out, take anything Chuck Hawks says with a grain of salt. There has never been a product that he didn't like as long as you pay him enough money.
ranburr |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Ahuebel I realy like the rought you are on for your rifle purchase:Sako=worth every penny:WSM's=The real deal,accuracy,minimized recoil,flat tragectory and power.
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Not many rounds as versatile as the good ole 30-06! I use 125 grains for coyotes, 150-165 for whitetails and 180 for Elk. You can buy them anywhere and at a decent price (have you seen the $$ for the WSM?) and reloading info is easy to find! And just about every gunmaker has a gun chambered for it.
I'm no expert, but I think the .270 is marginal for Elk and anything below is out of the question! Let me explain a little. If you live in Elk country and can hunt many days, then getting close enough for a .260 size round is doable. But most folks don't get a chance to hunt like that. A lot of Elk hunters get one chance at a trophy and decide to take a shot they really shouldn't. If you have a smallish round, that just makes it worse!
edit=typo Edited by Tip69 |
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take em!
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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.25 calibers are good for deer and antelope but you are limited to relatively light bullets. The .260 has a real advantage there. The heavier .264's have very high sectional density and "kill stuff deader than you'd think they ought to".
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i dont know i have seen bull moose go down with one well placed .243, the old saying no replacement for shot placement, although on elk i agree i like to carry at least my 25 wssm with a 120 grain bullet and i just got my 6.5 remington mag and am very excited to see how it performs
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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fwinn
Optics GrassHopper Joined: December/30/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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if i'm not mistaken, which i have been before, some states require the use of a .270 caliber or larger for elk. if you are worried about recoil, you said you have a browning that you love, which is available with a boss, which acts as a muzzle brake. my buddy has a 7mm magnum with the boss, and it is an awesome shooting gun. also trigger can be lightened with timney springs on an a-bolt for about $15. some people don't like brownings, but i love my a-bolts. the 7mm magnum also can be gotten in factory loads at as little as 140 grains.
Edited by fwinn |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i want to know which states require that??
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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I thought the same thing regarding minimum caliber........ so I looked at Nebraska's and its states: Legal Weapons: Rifles .26 cal. or larger which fire a 100-grain or larger bullet delivering at least 2,000 foot pounds of bullet energy at 100 yards;
I still wouldn't use anything smaller than the 7mm for Elk. But you still can't beat the -06 for an all-around choice. |
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take em!
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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that is correct
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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