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Ideal LONG RANGE RIFLE |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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Posted: December/05/2006 at 08:08 |
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Hey guys - question for you......
what would be the best long range rifle for 300 - 1000 yrds. ???
.338 lapua / 300 winmag / .308 / .223 ????
i want to put together a good longrange setup next and would appreciate your advice.
J |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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and as far as optics? fixed or variable? parallax adjustments? adjustable objective?
J |
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noddah
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/06/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Though looking at the caliber choice (Not too hot not too cold) I would recommend the 300 Win Mag.
"Give or take" IMO the calibers drop off in the following order: 223-5.56 (500 - 700 Yards) 308-7.62x51 (700-1000) 300 Win Mag ( 800 - 1,100 Yards) 338 ( 1,600 Yards)
For the scope; is this rifle going to be a "daylight" range rifle? |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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yes, maybe dusk on occasion - no nighttime needs
but mainly daylight, punching paper
i am leaning towards the .300 winmag or the .338 lapua -
is it taboo to have a 'tactical' scope w/out the tall turrets?
i am leaning towards the 35mm IOR's or the S&B line - any other suggestions? what about super sniper or other brands?
thanks, this is a foreign area to me, i pride myself in hunting rifles/optics.
i look forward to your posts. I will probably get a Sako TRG-S, Tikka T3 tactical or varmint model, or a Rem 700P.
i 'need' to keep this under 2500 bucks or so, so i don't want to have to modify the trigger, etc, too much. leaning toward the Tikka varmint. I could spend more on the glass that way.
thanks for help.
J
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noddah
Optics Apprentice Joined: September/06/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Nothing about the 338 is inexpensive... On the other hand components and factory loadings are plentiful with the 300 Win Mag; it is a compromise between performance vs. more choices, more trigger time and less expense.
Another scope I would consider is the Nightforce Scopes. The NF Scopes have allot of adjustment are a quality product; ($1000 to $1400 range) with rifle and scope you will stay in budget.
IOR also makes a good product; though it is my experience not all of the line is on par...
The S&B is awesome... I own them and love them; though I question if you will stay in budget with the S&B option.
The Super Sniper is a "bang for the buck" scope. I owned one on a 50 rifle and didn't care for it; though there are many who just love them... |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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yeah, i just researched the S&B scopes and were impressed/depressed. i can't afford the tactical models - champagne tastes and beer money. as usual - heheh -
would it be taboo to put the highest quality hunting scope w/ a rangefinding or mildot reticle on top? i can get a lot more glass for the money that way.
thanks
J |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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and if i can't economically put a range rifle together, i will just buy another hunting setup - hehe -
damn, i love guns....
J |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Jon here are my pics for your aplication and budget, Tikka t3 tactical 300 win Mag. Specially developed for heavy duty use by law enforcement agencies and tactical competition shooters. The action and free-floating, heavy barrel surfaces are magnese phosphatized for lasting protection. Muzzle thread for optional Sako muzzle brake or suppressor. The Picatinny rail on the top of the action takes any Weaver or U.S.Mil.Std. 1913 compatible mounts. The recoil pad is of black rubber and the lenght of pull may be adjusted with spacers. The standard 5-round magazines are tailored for each caliber for ultimate reliability and performance.
190 Gr. Match Hollow Point Velocity 2950 FPS Energy 3672 Ft. Lbs. AVAILABLE IN MOLYCOAT When developing our .300 Win. Mag load, we started with the "Seal Team" .300 WM load which was developed for pure accuracy & long range performance. We modified the load to be within industry dimensions and to increase uniformity. The result is the best available 300 Win. Mag. precision ammunition.
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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You might want to check the website www.richardscostomrifles.com and see what he builds and shoots and view the clips of their long range shots at ground hogs and the deer shot.
Duce |
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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Here are my 2 cents. The 300 win. mag. would be my caliber of choice of the above. Ammo is readily available and inexpense, relatively speaking in a variety of loads and bullet sizes. I performance is more of an issue and you reload then a 300 Wby. Mag. would be my first choice, followed by a 30-378 Wby. Mag. Now, here is where I am going to get alot of flack about barrel burners. The 300Wby. Mag. to a lesser degree. The Accumark, out of the box is well known to last for as many as 5000 rounds, as long as you do not take it to the range and put 200 shells through it in 30 minutes allowing the barrel to glow. There is many a shooter with whom I have communicated through other forums and at the local ranges who have stated this to me. In fact, too many to discount what they have to say. In addition, if you are putting together a custom project, you will be wanting a bull barrell, which will have a longer life expectancy. The accuracy achieved and the distances you want without having to straing the elevation adjustments on your scope or worse yet, have to cant it, will be well worth the money. Heat is the great enemy to any rifle barrel and even my Accumark, which has a relatively heavy SS barrel does not heat up very fast in 60 degree weather. Anyway, below is a few ballistic charts on the calibers noted above. At short distances the differences are not significant, but at longer range they do become significant, especially energy, if you every want to hunt the rifle at long distances. www.longrangehunter.com
The headings for the columns are listed between the second and third chart.
Ballistics Table for a 300 Win. Mag. with a 180 grain Nosler BT 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1.5 0.0 0.0 2970 3525 0.0 0.0000 |
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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If you're going to shoot a lot, most people get tired of recoil from a 300 Mag, and certainly anything larger. That's why so many of the 1000 yd shooters have gone to the 6.5X284. Low recoil, and the long 6.5mm bullets have ballistic coefficients greater than .500. My good friend shot 1000 yds. for a long time with a 30-378. He made the switch to the 6.5X284. His scores improved immediately. He won't touch a 30-378 any more.
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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do i have to handload to acheive good results downrange? or is there good factory loads for the above calibers?
J |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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If your looking at the 300 WM, there are several loads from the factory that offer the 190 gr.Sierra BT loads, like Federal Gold Match, Black Hills etc. You're not going to want to log alot of rounds downrange behind a 300 WM. I start to get punchy after 25-30 rounds of 300 WM 180 gr. loads. Recoil and muzzle blast are pretty significant. If you are looking for a Remmy 700, you might want to hold off till next year when they put the new trigger on the 700's. It is going to be as good as any after market trigger out there. Just my 2cs.
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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I have to admit, recoil is a factor when shooting the heavy magnums, but the drops in the small calibers are significant and will require 30 mm tubed scopes and possibly canting. But, it is a factor to consider, after getting pounded so many times. My 30-378 has a muzzle brake and kicks far less than my 300 win. mag., but it is loud as hell. I wear plugs and muffs. Tough decision. Let us know what you decide on and how it goes. But, if long distance hunting ever is going to be in the cards, energy down field, must be considered.
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
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By the way, the above tables, are from factory loads. Federal Vital Shock for the 300win.mag. and Wby. ammo for the Wby. calibers.
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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good to know guys - thanks for the input.
what about the 300 WSM? is it a decent long ranger? or the 338 WSM?
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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You will have to handload the 6.5X.284 (all serious bench shooters handload). Check out the ballistics table below for a 6.5mm 140gr bullet at 3000fps. It beats the 300 Win Mag and won't kill your shoulder or ears.
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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that's impressive for a small projectile - i may give it a closer look.
lots of good info guys - thanks!!
recoil may be a deciding factor - i shot a synthetic 7 mag the other day and the recoil and percussion rattled me to the core. great, flat gun, but i won't shoot it again - hhehehe
J |
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ceylonc
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/13/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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I have to agree w/mwyates with regard to caliber selection. The 6.5/284 is a fantastic round for 1,000yd shots. It can be a barrel-burner but so long as you keep the barrel heat down you should be fine. Even if you only get 1,500-2,500 rds., it's not like a custom barrel is going to cost over $600. If you're looking at doing a custom rifle, you can certainly save enough money in a short amount of time to get a new barrel...
With regard to optics, I LOVE the IOR 35mm 6x24 50mm and the MP8 reticle . Nightforce also makes a great scope for your applications and they also offer a number of reticles from which to choose. Obviously S&B and USO are the "cat's ass" for tactical uses but they also command a small fortune.
Don't forget to spend wisely on your scope base & rings. I can't imagine a reason why you wouldn't go with a one-piece picatinny base. For rings, there are a number of really good ones out there from $50-200. A few that I have used or personally inspected and can recommend are Warne, Seekins Precision, Badger Ordinance, TPS, and A.R.M.S., IOR.
Best of luck! |
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