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cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 11:50

Thanks for the kind words, Dolphin.

Your very kind to say those things, but just because I say something doesn't make it "The Gospel" either.

 

I know a ton of Weatherby guys that won't have anything but one of Roy W.'s work.

Their almost like a cult. 

I never really warmed up to them, but hey, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

Some of those rifles are flat gorgeous!!

 

The Vanguard I shot, just came back from a Canadian black bear hunt and looked like it had been drug all the way back to NC from there.

I reprimanded the hunter for letting it get like that too.

Not a real good sample.

 

I too have read good reviews of the Vanguard and handled a few more at Walmart.

 

I have seen more than a few Tikkas that would shoot sub moa 3 shot groups with factory ammo.  

I don't like the plastic detachable magazine on them though........

 

 

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:34
Hmm.

Perhaps I am a misinformed novice or just downright stupid (presumably, if you disagree with Dolphin you are either one or the other), but I've played with my share of Howas, both labeled as Vanguard and as Howa, and they are decent rifles, though largely unexceptional rifles.  Some are a little rougher than others, but they are OK allround.  Having said that, I'll take a Tikka or a Savage over Howa any day.

I do not have enough experience with the higher end Weatherbys to have an opinon, but since I generally avoid any cartridge with the words: super, duper, ultra, mega and magnum in the name, I will probably never know.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:40
You know, I did not know that had a plastic detachable magazine.  The Walmarts around here carry squat.  And if you ask them to order something, its like you are looking at an alien.  A couple X-mas' ago, I ordered a nice Savage heavy fluted barrel 223 in a synthetic stock SS for my son as his Santa Claus so to speak and another rifle for my future son-in-law.  My son's rifle came in on time in 1 week.  2 months later, I finally had to go to Walmart, only to find out the order was cancelled, despite me calling every other day.  I got so frustrated and just said pick one out of the carousel and he took the Vanguard 300 Wby mag.  He still has not mounted a scope or shot it yet.  Despite that, it takes 2 hours to get out of the damn store.  And if you have not ordered from them, they have to put the rifle in the lay away area.  I told them I would pay up front the total price, but I could not do that, I could pay everything less one penny.  I try to buy online only, unless I find a great deal elsewhere.  Oh well.  I am heading out to the range to finish sighting some rifles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:54
Well koshkin, Roy Weatherby was a true pioneer.  He went against the grain, many years before these other so called super duper cartridges.  He went against the heavy slow moving projectile to faster moving, harder hitting bullets that eventually were just as heavy as anything else.  So to compare him and his renowned cartridges to these newcomers is not fair.  These newcomers are doing for simply one reason.  New cartridges, mean new rifles chambered for those cartridges, which means more rifles sales and in turn more sales of cartridges.  Wby has not introduced a new caliber in years.  The newest, was the 30-378, which really is not new, but just added to their line up.  It was developed in 1969, as a contract from the US government.  It was not adopted over the 308, due to the expensive of replacing all of the armament, not to speak of the fact, every other government still used the 308 and ammo was plentiful and cheap and it was still an excellent caliber.  Now, to the quality of Howa.  While their stocks are not impeccable, their mechanics are a beauty, smooth and silky with a good stock trigger.  They can be purchased for half of what a Tikka can be had for and I would still take the Howa and put more money into a good quality scope, because that counts as much or more than the rifle, escpecially, when my Howas shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards which is more than adequate for any hunter.  Any less is overkill.  But, If you like a Tikka, then as I have always said, buy what you like and be happy.  Thats why there are so many gun makers out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 13:10
Howa for half of the price of a Tikka?  That's a new development, for sure.  I've seen Tikka T3s around for under $600. 

If you can find me a place where I can buy a Howa for under $300, I'll get one.  My biggest complaint with Howas is that the triggers have been spotty in my experience, but if the rifle is $300 I'll stoop to tuning the trigger.

As for the cartridges, I do not care when it was invented.  I see no compelling reason (for me) to own anything with that kind of kick and muzzle blast.  I am a firm believer that shot placement and bullet design are far more important than extracting extra 200fps out of a cartridge.  Then again, I am not going to take shot at anything other than a paper or metal target beyond 300 yards.

Then again, I must be a not too bright and ill-informed novice.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smithrjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 19:13
 I guess that I am one of the uneducated  ones as well.  Eurotrash.. interesting term, as I recall  many Weatherby rifles were made in Germany?? Might they be Eurotrash nose bleeders as well?  At any rate my favorite rifle of all time is a Sako in 6.5x55 does not kick the crap out of me, ammo is easy to reload and get brass for. I would be happy to challange anyone to a off the rack hunter style bench rest shoot. I have yet to find a load with this rifle that will not shoot MOA any decent load is 1/2MOA or less. In the past 15 years I have won many such shoots with this rifle. Expensive, yes trash not in my opinion. In fact for value for the dollar I believe that I got more than I paid for. I guess that is why so many different rifles are for sale, each to his own, but eurotrash, not so sure about that one.         
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 20:46
Koshkin, you're a sly one. I know that you are resting on silly outdated beliefs based on sound judgment, education and a splash of common sense, while secretly awaiting the release of Lazzaroni's Battlestar. A 30 cal. that drives a 180 gr. futuristicly plated slug at 4000 fps. Then you will be extolling the virtues of hyper-static energy transfer and ease of range estimation out to 2000 yrds ( 3000 on rockcucks) with little to no hold over. No,  you're not foolin me one bit. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 22:56
Roy, you found me out.

I am almost done with my groundbreaking work necking a 50BMG case down to 0.17 Caliber  I'll call the new cartridge "From a Madhouse with Love".

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 23:47

 

 

Hmmm... Nose bleed rifles good... Nose bleed scope bad...     Since I'm not a doctor, but am a BMY share holder, I can't tell him to back off the Plavix. 

"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2006 at 13:16

Now we are seeing the sensitive side of you guys, settle down, it will be ok.  As far a recoil, its not a problem for me and I do not flinch.  I may not be the best shot, but I do fine for hunting.  With respect to the prices of the rifles, I am basically looking at rough retail prices, lets not look at 50 bucks and snicker.  As far as the nose bleeder comments, seems to me, I was advocating purchasing a Howa, I did not realize it was a nose bleeder.  In addition, I buy most of my Wbys over the internet used at great prices.  The 7mmSTW Mark V Euromark, actually owned by a collector who passed and handled by Roy himself, (I know that is going to get your goat and remind you of someone else, I guess that is why I included it), I purchase for the price of a Tikka.  The seller of the collection was tired of selling his Wby collection a cut a great deal.  So despite what you think, I do not have or spend my money with abandonment.  Now to the issue of euro trash.  I guess that is an over call, because Tikka and Sako are fine rifles that stand up with the best of any rifle.  So excuse that expression.  I guess I just get tired of the lastest greatest weird looking developed fiream (Browning Cynergy) or other product from Europe.  Although, I cannot take credit for this term regarding the Browning, but read it in a review by Petzal or Boddington or somebody.  One other thing, I love Wbys in other non-Wby calibers.  They can be had at good prices at places, such as competitorinvstments.com.  Cannot help it, I just love the action.  So okay, I am ready, tear me apart again, I love it.  Go for all you got.  Do your best.  Do one favor for me, read the whole post and do not skim it and do not take offense to items that are not directed toward you personally, but at a certain crowd in general.  By the way, if you do not shoot a Browning around here, you ain't crap (even if you shoot a Tikka, Sako, Wby. or whatever) and if you do not have a Leupold, you ain't crap.  Also, you guys are too easy, I love mind games.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2006 at 16:41
Silver, just to let you know.  A few months back, there was a gereric Plavix and all the medicare plan D programs mandated the use of it over the name brand.  The local Plavix reps were beside themselves and one even switched jobs.  The drug was pulled.  Bristol Myers Squibb says it is because it is not the equilvalent of the name brand Plavix, but the pharmacists tell me, it is because of a legal battle.  I have not researched it, because the plans mandate what I prescribe.  But, if the generic returns, good bye Plavix and Bristol Myers Squibb stock will plumet.  Just a thought.  Oh, and that Tikka.  I still believe they are great rifles.  The Tikka that is (and the Howas, as well).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2006 at 17:05
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Now we are seeing the sensitive side of you guys, settle down, it will be ok.  As far a recoil, its not a problem for me and I do not flinch.  I may not be the best shot, but I do fine for hunting.  With respect to the prices of the rifles, I am basically looking at rough retail prices, lets not look at 50 bucks and snicker.  As far as the nose bleeder comments, seems to me, I was advocating purchasing a Howa, I did not realize it was a nose bleeder.  In addition, I buy most of my Wbys over the internet used at great prices.  The 7mmSTW Mark V Euromark, actually owned by a collector who passed and handled by Roy himself, (I know that is going to get your goat and remind you of someone else, I guess that is why I included it), I purchase for the price of a Tikka.  The seller of the collection was tired of selling his Wby collection a cut a great deal.  So despite what you think, I do not have or spend my money with abandonment.  Now to the issue of euro trash.  I guess that is an over call, because Tikka and Sako are fine rifles that stand up with the best of any rifle.  So excuse that expression.  I guess I just get tired of the lastest greatest weird looking developed fiream (Browning Cynergy) or other product from Europe.  Although, I cannot take credit for this term regarding the Browning, but read it in a review by Petzal or Boddington or somebody.  One other thing, I love Wbys in other non-Wby calibers.  They can be had at good prices at places, such as competitorinvstments.com.  Cannot help it, I just love the action.  So okay, I am ready, tear me apart again, I love it.  Go for all you got.  Do your best.  Do one favor for me, read the whole post and do not skim it and do not take offense to items that are not directed toward you personally, but at a certain crowd in general.  By the way, if you do not shoot a Browning around here, you ain't crap (even if you shoot a Tikka, Sako, Wby. or whatever) and if you do not have a Leupold, you ain't crap.  Also, you guys are too easy, I love mind games.

 

??????????????????????????????????????????????

 

Dude, you're bizarre... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2006 at 20:49
Just as I expected, a bizarre non-response.  Come on, can't you have the intellectual capacity to respond or are you just a deaf mute.  I would expect more from a so called expert.  Certainly you can do better.  Give it another try.  But, I guess if you are shooting a 7mm-08, with whatever rifle, you have no other perspective.   Ceylonc, again, I would have expected, much better from you.  Do you read the posts, or skim them.  I will give you a second chance for a quasi-intelligent response.  So let me know what you think, instead of a bunch of ????????????.  Dude, you are bizarre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2006 at 04:22

Fellas, how about we let this one go??

There's very little that's left to be said and everyone has made their point.

 

Cease Fire!!

 

This forum is the best on the net.

Let's try to keep it professional and friendly.

If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2006 at 08:03

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Just as I expected, a bizarre non-response.  Come on, can't you have the intellectual capacity to respond or are you just a deaf mute.  I would expect more from a so called expert.  Certainly you can do better.  Give it another try.  But, I guess if you are shooting a 7mm-08, with whatever rifle, you have no other perspective.   Ceylonc, again, I would have expected, much better from you.  Do you read the posts, or skim them.  I will give you a second chance for a quasi-intelligent response.  So let me know what you think, instead of a bunch of ????????????.  Dude, you are bizarre.

 

WOW...

 

A blowhard with a dictionary.  I love the word "quasi!"

 

Dolphin,

You're entitled to your opinion.  I'm glad you're confident in your feelings.

 

I don't come to this site to debate with you.  Lets just say that on some topics we'll just have to "agree to disagree."  I also choose to use a different tone and demeanor (from that of you) when I interact with the other members here.  I come here to learn from the experts and, when I can, help others if I can speak from knowledge or experience.  I'll take cheaptrick's advice and "play nice" on this thread.

 

I've considered crafting a response to your original rant but I doubt it would mean much, considering that a man of your ego and intellect would never stoop to listen to a "deaf mute" such as me.

 

Go ahead and get in the last word.  I know it's coming.  Don't expect a response from me.

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2006 at 08:18
Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gozarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2006 at 16:35
Trykon, 3800 fps from a 26 inch barrel 7mm Ultra Mag doesn't seem right to me.  Has your friend actually chronographed his loads?  He may get that velocity but only by severely overloading the case.  I suspect he'll have to pound the bolt open with a maul after each shot!  In my custom barreled 31" Lazzeroni Warbird, I'm getting 3612 fps as told to me by my Chrony chronograph. That is with 165 grain Failsafes and 103 grains of Reloder 25.  I could probably get more velocity but I keep pressures down a little and get near one-hole-groups (3 shots at 3/8 of an inch outside spread).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/20/2006 at 20:41
Yeah its been chronographed but he's shooting a 139 grain intrabond Hornady.  I'm not going to shoot the same set up he is becuase it doesn't group as well as i would like.  I'm going to shoot 154 gr Hornady SST's handloaded should shoot around 3300-3400 ftps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 13:15

ok ok -

 

i am sorry for bringing up my tikka rant. i accept full responsibility............hehehe.

 

but man, do those rifles shoot well........

 

happy hunting fellas.

 

i love budweiser, but i ain't gonna fight over it.

 

J

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