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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HELP!!!!
    Posted: November/08/2006 at 19:08
I went and shot my model 700 Remington 7mm Mag today and I still can't get it to group!  I've tried 3 types of bullets and none of them would group consistently.  The scope which is a Zeiss Conquest 6-20x50 seems to be seeted well but the barrel will move slightly.  A friend of mine said that it should be able to move slightly because it's a bolt action and the barrel is free floated....  I don't know if that's true or not.  If you have any suggestions please inform me.
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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 19:32
I believe you had good luck with the Federal ammo before? What happened? You have checked ALL scope base mount screws?
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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 19:33
Yeah i had good luck with them just early this week.  I've checked everything. 
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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 19:40
First, the barrel movement is normal within the forend channel. How long have you had the scope?
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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 20:05
Just got it a few day's ago.  But it was shooting fine on the other rifle it was on.
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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 20:13

 

 

So, why do you think it may be the scope?    It is diagnostic question that has to be asked.  Even more so since you are talking about some form of barrel movement?  Define barrel movement?  Is the Barrel moving or is the stock flexing?  What sort of stock is it?

"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 20:35
It's a custom thumb hole stock. I can take the barrel and try to move it and i can tell it is moving by looking at where the stock and barrel come together. 
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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 20:57
This is a used scope from another one of your rifles? Are you shooting the same load each time to the range? I believe you stated before that you were shooting 140 gr. Winchester's, 150 gr. Remington's then 150 gr. Federal's, correct?
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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 21:36

I've shot all three of the loads about a box each and i can't get any of them to group now.  I'm just trying to get the gun to group.  I can't zero the scope unless i can get the gun to group.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 21:50
If it is a scope issue, trying to get a group won't happen. If you are certain it's not the scope, did you install the stock? Recheck the install paying close attention to the magazine box. If it is binding anywhere that can be be a source of problems. I'm not questioning your skill here, just spitballing. Remington's have a 9 1/4- 91/2 twist barrel from the factory in 7mm rifles. From my experience, 150's tend to shot better than 140's, but each gun/barrel can vary. Nosler BT's have always been accurate as a rule, so I don't think it's a ammo issue. Does the gun have a history of shooting well with the stock you have. Usually if a gun is shooting well, then out of nowhere it starts shooting poorly, it can be traced to a scope or scope mount issue.
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Trykon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trykon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2006 at 22:15

The gun was shooting fine the last time i shot it with my Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x50, but that was a year ago.  I just purchased the zeiss from a friend of mine.  I shot the rifle it was on and the scope worked perfectly well on his gun.  Maybe it's just a mount issue.  I hope that's the issue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2006 at 21:58
This is clearly a problem with the rifle bedding.  Regardless of whether it is free floated or not (and there is great debate on whether that is the best way to bed a rifle action, my preference is otherwise), it should not have excessive movement in the channel.  The Remington is tapped and drilled very accurately and your scope is great and I assume your mounts are of equal quality.  Therefore, the only part of the equation that is left to be unexplained is the bedding.  All rifles will exhibit some motion if forced enough, but, it should not be excessive or even enough/noticable, so that it can be seen to shift or move the reitcle of the scope.  I would definately go back and look at how the rifle was bedded.  However, you state it was shooting fine with the Nikon Buckmaster, which also brings up the obvious question, of a faulty mounting job with the Zeiss.  You know, if I here one more post with problems mounting a Zeiss scope, I will scream, as to why people buy them.  Go Bushnell Elite 4200s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smithrjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 00:45
 I would check the bedding, are the action screws tight? will the action rock before the screws are tightened? Does the floorplate mount correctley? If the action is not bedding after all of the rounds you have fired you should be able to see contact marks where things are not right. I can see no reason why a 1" tube Zeiss should be any different to mount than any other 1" tube scope. I have both a Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 and a Bausch & Lomb Balvar 2.5x10x40 which is remarkably similar to the 4200 series Bushnell no problems mounting either nor was either any easier or harder to mount.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 02:55

How far are you shooting?

 

When I have a problem, I back up to 25 or 50 yards and try it again. 

If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NC-amature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 08:08

Dolphin,

 

"You know, if I here one more post with problems mounting a Zeiss scope, I will scream, as to why people buy them."

 

I purchased one of the Zeiss 3-9x40 factory refurbished off the samplelist.  I've just completed mounting and sighting in.  Everything is fine.  And I did a little, informal test with what it was replacing (Simmons 44 Mag 3.5-10X44) after sundown in my neighborhood.  With the Simmons I could see a license plate on a parked van ~100ys away.  With the Zeiss I could read the license plate.  I'm a happy camper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 08:58
Originally posted by NC-amature NC-amature wrote:

Dolphin,

 

"You know, if I here one more post with problems mounting a Zeiss scope, I will scream, as to why people buy them."

 

I purchased one of the Zeiss 3-9x40 factory refurbished off the samplelist.  I've just completed mounting and sighting in.  Everything is fine.  And I did a little, informal test with what it was replacing (Simmons 44 Mag 3.5-10X44) after sundown in my neighborhood.  With the Simmons I could see a license plate on a parked van ~100ys away.  With the Zeiss I could read the license plate.  I'm a happy camper.

With the price difference in those 2 scopes, I would hope you could tell a difference.  I am not trying to put down all Zeiss scopes, but I do see alot of posts of people having problems after they mount a Zeiss scope.  I have hunted with many a Simmons scope and have never failed to hit a deer and stop them in their tracks.  I do not own a Zeiss, may be one day I will, but own many other scopes.  Good hunting.
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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 10:19

Dolphin,

 

Why do you have issues with the Ziess scopes? It could be the "pos" rings, mount or install.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2006 at 16:57
I guess it just boils down to the cost, because I love German cars.  But, then again, I do not go for the nose bleeders.  I have an Audi A4 quattro with a 6 speed.  Sort of like buying the Bushnell Elite 4200.  I does everything the nose bleeders do, but at half the price.  Now, I know you can get the 3x9 Zeiss at a reasonable price and I will probably try one.   Problem is, I have too many rifles and too many scopes.  I did some scope mounting and switching today and I was left with one Sightron SII 4x12AO a Mueller 4x16 Sport Dot a Swift and a Japanese made Nikko Stirling.  If I buy another scope, I might not be sleeping in the same bed with my wife.  Same with buying another rifle.  In addition, I wrecked my 72 Cheyene Supreme yesterday, totalled and I do not have a hunting truck.  I am pissed.  I will figure out something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2006 at 00:28

 

 

Doc Dolphin,

 

You could go down to the Bar B Que place and offer a two for one stent sale

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NC-amature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/13/2006 at 09:49

Dolphin,

 

I never failed to hit a deer with the Simmons either.  However, this past Saturday I was very happy with my new Zeiss.  I didn't bag anything, but when the deer showed at the edge of the food plot just before dawn, I could easily tell I didn't see any antlers because there weren't any in the group. . .only does.  My daughter was sitting in another stand on the club, so I wanted to wait for a nice buck for myself.  Didn't happen.

 

As far as the price difference, I look at it this way.  The 44 Mag is what Simmons returned to me on a warranty replacement.  I originally scoped the rifle with a Simmons Whitetail 3.5-10X50 for $249.99 in 1996.  I realize now that was way overpriced. . .I was young and took the advice from the gunshop.  I got the Zeiss for ~$360 off the Samplelist.  So, for $110 more, I stepped way up in quality.

 

All that said, I have only one primary rifle for hunting, so I don't have to worry about scoping multiple rifles. . .YET.

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