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Why 35mm, and do I need it? |
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Exoman
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Posted: September/16/2006 at 12:51 |
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I really need a good scope for my ar10.
Ever since I sold my pentax lightseeker 3-9 x 40 I have been bouncing around the woods with a nikon prostaff fixed 4x that I robbed off my ruger 10/22 squirrel gun.....needless to say this is not cutting it. I have been eyeing the IOR 35mm line for some time and have always been under the impression that the 35mm tube leads to better light transmission, larger fov, and increased adjustability.... then I started reading this forum. I have been reading thru some of these 30mm versus 1" threads clearing up some misconceptions I had about larger tube diameter. It is stated over and over that 30mm tubes do not draw in any more light than 1" and its the purpose of the objective diameter and exit pupil to do so. This would suggest 35mm is not going to draw in any more light than 1" as well correct? Is this to say that the IOR 6x42 30mm is going to be superior in low light conditions to the IOR 6x30 35mm? Is this to say that the 2.5-10x56 30mm going to draw more light and be better for hunting at dusk than the 2-12x32 35mm? I have to ask what advantages is one getting out of the 35mm tube diameter outside of increased adjustability if it offers no improvement on light transmission? Does the larger tube diameter lend to a larger field of view? Are the larger tube diameters quicker to line up? It would seem that trying to line up two 35mm circles would go much quicker than 2 1"circles. then again I havent ever been able to look thru a 35mm so I can only speculate over here. What I am wanting is a versatile scope with a ranged reticle (really digging the mp8) thats going to have good low light characteristics. I hunt deer, hog, and coyote , all of which seem to be most active at dusk. I need something that can tune down to low power for brush busting but will still have the ability to make a shot at 500 yards( i wouldnt take questionable shots at deer but coyotes are another story) I have had my heart set on the 3-18X42 but i dont know if its the best choice for my application. I have hung out for almost a year and watched the ior 35mm prices hoping theyd settle down but it seems the prices are only going up Over on snipers hide it would appear IOR is cooking up a ffp 3-18x 42 with no illumination however it seems the cost of the ffp is going to make up for the cost savings of no illumination. and put the price the same if not higher than the current 3-18x42. Part of me wanted to settle on a fixed 6x but after much deliberation I feel a 6x may give me a little bit of both but not enough of either(too slow for brush busting and not enough ass to make a long shot). Ultimately tho I just dont know If I am barking up the right tree here as far as what I need in a scope versus what I want hanging on top of my rifle. anybody got a couple cents? |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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See my comments below.
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Welcome Exoman to The OT!!
As an aside, who's making rings for the 35mm tubes these days besides IOR?? I thought I had heard of someone else, but not sure.
Good response, koshkin. I colored font, no less.... (Exoman, he must really like you to do that!!) |
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ceylonc
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/13/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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I was told by Steve @ IOR that the 35mm tube is also stronger than previous models. I believe they did so to make the scope attractive to shooters of .50 caliber rifles, etc.
With regard to 35mm rings, seems like I read somewhere that TPS and Badger makes them along with IOR. Not 100% positive about this. Anybody else know for sure??? |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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With IOR 35's my choice would be the 2-12x32 with the free IOR rings included. The prices kind of suck right now for the IOR 35's in my opinion. Cheap USO makes some nice 35mm rings with horizontal travel for alighment corrections. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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I have TPS 35 mm rings and I am happy with them.
ILya |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Koshkin
Your IOR did not come with the free tactical rings? Or did you not like The IOR rings? |
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Exoman
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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thanks for the warm welcome, and thanks for the reply Koshkin. blue is my favorite color |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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Actuoally, my IOR came with TPS rings. Not entirely sure why, but they work well so I did not ask. ILya |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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That IOR fixed 6x42 would probably work fine but spend more if you have it to spend.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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xtreme_jeremy
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/03/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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do you guys know if IOR is going to make the 3-18X42 35mm tube scope in FFP? It just seems like it would be so much easyer shooting with a ffp rather then checking your power before you used your retical for holds, ranging or sighting it in.
I just found out for sure that I need a new scope for my rifle. for months now I have been trying to get my rifle to group good and the best I can do is 3/4 an inch
I thought it might be the ammo I was shooting but I thought it might be my scope so today I put my super sniper 16x scope back on and sighted it in well my first group with the super sniper back on the rifle and all three bullet holes made one big hole that was less then 3/8ths an inch. this is just shooting the Fedral cheap hunting ammo $12.99 a box!
So now I know its time for me to get a new scope and man do I feel better there for awhile I was starting to think that I was not going to be a good shooter but now I feel much better about my skills. I know the super sniper is not going to do so well for deer and elk hunting and 16x does not give you much field of view at 50 yards so I am thinking about the IOR but really want a FFP retical.
let me know what scopes you would reccomend that are similar to this one.
Jeremy
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Exoman
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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so is this the only variable FFP that IOR offers?
http://www.swfa.com/pc-7137-292-ior-25-10x42-tactical-30mm-r ifle-scope.aspx I know they are talking about making a 3-18X42 ffp on snipershide but it sounds like that will be december. not to jack my own thread but I havent decided whether I need ffp or not. it does seem like anything thats far enough away to require ranging, youd certainly want to put it at max magnification. I also dont know how smudgey an Mp8 is gong to get on ffp at the lowest magnification. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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If you plan to do a lot of ranging with the reticle, ffp is nice to have, but not necessary. With SFP scopes, though it is a good idea to confirm the reticle size at a particular power. If it says it is 10x, it does not necessarily mean it is. Placing a yardstick or a mildot target at a known distance can help calibrate reticle size at different powers. If I plan to use the reticle for ranging and/or holdover I usually put a mildot target at 100 yards and calibrate the scope at two or three different magnifications depending on the scope.
My experience with FFP reticles has been mixed. Some are excellent, but some are either barely noticeable at low power or obscure too much of the target at high power. If it does not obscure too much at high power, then you can't easily use for ranging at lower powers because it is too fine. However, a lot of people who know more about this then I do like them, so take my comments with a grain of salt. ILya |
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Exoman
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Im going to be hunting. and the nature of the land I am on is such taht I can see something from hill to hill 300-400 yards away or I could have a hog bust out 10 yards in front of me. is the difference in size of the sfp reticle consistantly different? For instance if I get the 3-18 x42 sfp. any problem with using a rangefinder to note what yardage each hash mark on the mp 8 delivers bullseye at 3x and at 18x power and just remembering the difference dependant on whether I am at minumum or maximum power? |
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TPS_Phil
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/14/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 339 |
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IOR is using TPS 35mm Rings, but those are the only TPS Rings at this time. |
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xtreme_jeremy
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/03/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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well I just gave IOR a call and they said that they are not going to be making this scope in FFP Becasue the retical would not work well becasue the huge power difference from 3x to 18x they said that if you were shooting game at 600 yards the dot would cover the whole head of the animal and on 3x you would not be able to see the dot.
thats about all I know for now.
I like the idea of being able to range on any power but at the same time if my cross hair is so big at long range its not worth it.
I am sure there is some way to get the best of both worlds. I think I have figgered out how but want to talk to a few scope companys before I give my idea away.
anyone that works for a scope manufacturer and is interested in solving this problum pleas contact me!
Jeremy |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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That would work just fine. You just have to be always aware of what magnification you are on. ILya |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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I typically like a FFP reticle for most of my shooting. Being able to "mill" a target at any and all power ranges is just plain good.
THAT SAID....For any and every hunting scenario that "I have been in", a RFP reticle will be more practical, IMO.
I like what koshkin said about "lossing the reticle" of a FFP reticle in lowlight situations and at higher magnifacations. That's the way I see it too. (No pun intended.) |
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Exoman
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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so are you loosing the reticle itself at high magnification or loosing the target because he reticle has become too large and is covering it up? |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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As you crank up the power at low light, the reticle becomes"smaller" I realize that the reticle doesn't actually get smaller, but said that to convey my point.
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