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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Posted: March/08/2016 at 17:16 |
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I have a supremely accurate McWhorter Custom 7mm08 that deserves a quality scope. It currently has as 4.5-14x40 VX3 CDS on it, but am disappointed in that I've experienced my first major tracking problem with a Leupy (flame suit on, but at least give me credit for admitting it). I'm considering venturing to the dark side with a mil/mil setup like the 3-15x42, or 3-9x42HD SS. I have a few questions if you guys don't mind.
1. Is the MQ reticle the same in each? 2. How do the reticles hold up in not so great light or up against darker/brushy backgrounds? 3. How user friendly is the eyebox on the 3-15? 4. Given the 3-9 has no parallax adj, is there any issues with parallax? 5. What does the glass compare to in each model? 6. It appears the turrets are higher in the 3-15 than in the 3-9, true or not? I appreciate the help. IF I can't get comfy with the SS stuff, I may just put a 4.5-14x44 Meopta on it instead. |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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1) I have one of the very first 3-9's and it's a Mil Dot.
2) Mil Dot is "OK" for hunting. Certainly not a German #4, but doable. I use it in the briers here in NC/SC. 3) Don't know. 4) Zero issues. Amazingly user friendly FFP tactical scope. 5) Not sure. 6) Don't know that either, other than the 3-9x has superior turrets to the 3-15x which I believe is the SS Classic style. Not bad, but the 3-9x is much better. IMO Best I can do, JG. Good shooting.
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx
Reviews Posted!
Or to use information previously posted. Introducing the latest additions to the SWFA SS scope line.
Specs Exit Pupil: 2.8mm - 11.8mm Weight: 23.7 oz Length: 13.5" Field of View @ 100yds: 7.21 - 34.72 ft Field of View @ 100m: 2.4 - 10.6m Eye Relief (in): 4.3 - 3.9 Diopter Compensation: -2 ~ +1 dpr Click Adjustment Value: 0.1 MRAD Adjustment Per Revoultion: 5 Mils Total Elevation Adjustment: 36 Mils Total Windage Adjustment: 36 Mils Type of Reticle: Mil-Quad DM Focal Plane: 2nd Coating: Fully Multi Coated Waterproof: Yes Fogproof: Yes Shockproof: Yes SWFA 3-15x42 MQDM SFP with Subtensions (Click to Zoom): SWFA 3-15x42 MQDM SFP (Click to Zoom): Aiming Points Unlike the 1-4x24 we released last year this reticle in the new Second Focal Plane 3-15x42 has the ability, due to its higher magnification, to easily utilize not only the outer vertices of the diamond as aiming points but also the inner vertices, giving you five aiming points instead of three. These aiming points can be used for a wide variety of calibers. Below are some examples of how this could be utilized with a few different calibers. Actual point of impact vs. point aim: M852 7.62 168 Grain @ 2600 FPS Aiming point 1: 200 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 225 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 3: 300 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 4: 350 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 5: 375 yards (.00 Mils Off) M80 7.62 147 Grain @ 2850 FPS Aiming point 1: 200 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 225 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 3: 300 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 4: 375 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 5: 400 yards (.00 Mils Off) M118LR 7.62 175 Grain @ 2600 FPS Aiming point 1: 200 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 225 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 3: 300 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 4: 350 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 5: 375 yards (.00 Mils Off) 6.5 Grendel 123 Grain @ 2350 FPS Aiming point 1: 100 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 150 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 3: 200 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 4: 250 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 5: 300 yards (.20 Mils Low) 6.8 SPC 110 Grain @ 2550 FPS Aiming Point 1: 100 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 150 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 3: 200 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 4: 250 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 5: 300 yards (.20 Mils Low) .204 Ruger 40 Grain @ 3900 FPS Aiming point 1: 100 yard ZERO Aiming Point 2: 200 yards (.05 Mils High) Aiming Point 3: 325 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 4: 425 yards (.05 Mils Low) Aiming Point 5: 450 yards (.00 Mils Off) Target Ranging References All of the target ranging references are calibrated for 72" height as well as 18" width. To use it for 36" tall targets simply divide your range shown on the reticle by 2 and for 24" tall targets divide by 3. Examples are listed below. The target below is a 72" tall silhouette of a human. Considering it is 72" tall and fits just between our horizontal crosshair and the 800 yard target ranging indicator this target is 800 yards away. The target below is a 72" tall silhouette of a human. Considering it is 72" tall and fits just between our horizontal crosshair and the 200 yard target ranging indicator this target is 200 yards away. The target below is a 18" wide silhouette of a human. Considering it is 18" wide and fits just on top of our 300 yard target ranging indicator this target is 300 yards away. The target below is a 36" shoulder height silhouette of a deer. Considering it is 36" tall and fits just between our horizontal crosshair and the 400 yard target ranging indicator this target is 200 yards away. It is 200 yards away and not 400 yards because we are using a target that is half the height of what the target ranging references are calibrated for, so we have to divide the given range by 2. The target below is a 36" shoulder height silhouette of a deer. Considering it is 36" tall and fits just between our horizontal crosshair and the 800 yard target ranging indicator this target is 400 yards away. It is 400 yards away and not 800 yards because we are using a target that is half the height of what the target ranging references are calibrated for, so we have to divide the given range by 2. The target below is a 24" shoulder height silhouette of a hog. Considering it is 24" tall and fits just between our horizontal crosshair and the 300 yard target ranging indicator this target is 100 yards away. It is 100 yards away and not 300 yards because we are using a target that is one third the height of what the target ranging reference is calibrated for, so we have to divide the given range by 3.
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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The information you requested in regards to measurements of Scopes and Reticles and Subtensions is above. |
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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With all due respect 338, I've read most of the specs. My reason for asking the questions is that I'm looking for opinions from guys who have actually used them in the field.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I have both, lots of time on both.
The 3-9 is great in that reticle is usable at top and bottom. At 3X with the 3-15, the reticle is tough to use in low Light, no visible vertical below the horizontal. Parallax adjustment is great, the 3-9 has none and that does introduce some error at ranges moving away from 100 yards. I have had Leupold failures, a few, anyone who uses them will have failures. On glass, it is close. The edge goes to HD, I think, but cannot quantify. On turrets, I can measure the height on both models, but would get the 3-9 if only for the turrets. If you spin turrets, you will appreciate the 3-9 far more than you will like the 3-15. The 3-15 is no slouch, but I much prefer the workability of the 3-9. I like both scopes, I prefer less mag and better glass and that is 3-9. I'd rather take this 3-9 to long range than I would the 3-15 to long range. Both are great for me, I just prefer the 3-9. For me, this is a confidence game, and my confidence rests more on the 3-9. Both have tracked dead nuts for me. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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I just wanted to be supremely accurate.
Answered Questions 1, 3, 6... I have used them. Round count 4,347 down range. 3 primers that were not seated properly. I do not own the SFP 3-15. Which field? |
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Thank you RC. I was hoping you'd chime in. So do you predominantly choose to dial your vertical, or use the hash marks?
My biggest concern is being able to see and use the reticle in most hunting situations through legal shooting light/times. I won't mind trying to shoot hogs, 'yotes and other vermin way out there, but can't really see myself shooting at deer, for instance, much over 600 yds. These dots and hashes are second nature to you, but I'm a duplex guy and have been for the past 44 years, and I've never used a FFP optic. I do wish to be able to twist, even if only occasionally, and know exactly where the reticle will wind up. |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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RC at 900 yards which reticle do you prefer while hunting?
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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if you don't like the dots or diamonds, ignore them, spin turrets. I do some of both. My choice is a Christmas tree reticle with which I have verified all shooting ranges before I have to loose rounds on living things. Any new reticle requires time on the range. Verifying the subtensions of a reticle is MUCH easier than verifying turret precision/accuracy - then it just range time to be sure.
As for size of FFP reticle at range, therein lies the challenge. Many FFP reticle so are too thin on the bottom or too thick on the top - and no illumination just makes it worse. For that reason- and others - I prefer the 3-9. I think you, Raider, are hanging up on the abilities of the reticle rather than looking at it as a duplex with other stuff you can choose to ignore. 338, were I hunting at 900 yards, I would prefer a rifle that could not miss, topped with a scope that never made an error and had no optical flaws. Till then, I'll keep my hunting shots inside 900. But I do get where you are going with that. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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JG,
Since you are worried about seeing the reticle on low powers, why not consider the SFP models? |
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-Matt
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I didn't realize there was an SFP model. If you aren't buyijg it for reticle ranging/doping, get SFP, problem solved.
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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The only SFP I was aware of that I'm interested in is the 3-15. Didn't know the SFP in 3-9x42 HD was offered.
I do not use the reticle as a rangefinder. If/when the proper situation arises (for me) to shoot at say 5-600 yds, I get a range with rf, dial elevation, adjust magnification if necessary, and fire. In fairness I really cannot imagine a situation in the wide open country I hunt where I would ever even use 3x. My scopes are set on 6x most of the time, then I go from there. |
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Just for info purposes, I think that the 3-9 SS (my older mil dot version, anyway) has HD turrets, but not HD glass. That's not a problem, as the glass is pretty good as it is. I don't think that the glass was changed when SWFA changed reticles.
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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The glass on the 3-9x SS smokes the glass on my VX-R 3-9x. Seriously. And most all know what a fan I am of the VX-R.
Have said many times, I like a SFP over a FFP for hunting, but the FFP SS 3-9x is more than adequate, while admittedly not ideal.
There's no SS 3-9x in SFP, to my knowledge. |
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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From what Chris @ SWFA has said, I believe the SS 3-9X42 has always had "HD" level optics and nothing has changed optically from its introduction; only the reticle has changed.
I have an SS 3-15X42 w/ SFP Mil Quad on a precision air rifle (it's perfect for that use, especially since it's parallax adjustable down to 6 meters), and I borrowed Mark's SS 3-9X42 w/ Mil Dot reticle for several months. Since my SS 3-15 is used on my air rifle, I chose the SFP version. Keep in mind with regards my comments that I have a different philosophy on big game hunting scopes than some here, but I don't wish to invalidate anyone else's opinions on the matter who differ from mine. Both of these scopes are incredible optics, both in an absolute sense, and in a "value for the money" sense. They are build rock solid and track with precision. The Mil Quad is a fantastic reticle for its intended purpose as a LR precision reticle. For a big game hunting scope, I personally prefer to keep things simple, zero at an intermediate range like 200 or 250 yds, work within the reasonable MPBR of my chosen cartridge, and "aim on hair" out to 350 yds or so. While I enjoy doping LR drops with turrets, I have never seen the advantage to doing so on BG in the places I hunt, since the overwhelming majority of shot opportunities I ever encounter are 300 yds and closer. I would thus rather setup my gear for maximum efficiency on the 90% of shot opportunities than deal with the downsides of trying to gain that additional 10%. Even if I do encounter that "10%" shot, and even if I'm unable to get closer, passing up the shot isn't a huge deal to me. There will be more hunting days, and I'll have many more opportunities. Therefore, I personally don't want tall, exposed knobs on any big game hunting scope, for multiple reasons. I transport my rifles in an ATV scabbard a lot during hunting season. Tall knobs not only snag on the fabric liner inside the scabbard when sliding the rifle in and out of the scabbard, but in so doing, it can inadvertently spin the uncapped knobs. On some rifles, having really tall knobs would prevent a rifle from fitting in the scabbard to begin with. Then there's the possibility of brush snagging and inadvertently rotating one of the knobs without me noticing. I'm also paranoid, and I don't want to have to constantly check to make sure my W&E knobs are still zeroed all the time, especially when a quick shot opportunity presents itself. I like the security of capped knobs and knowing the only decision I have to make at the "moment of truth" is whether or not to shoot. I also don't want a hunting scope to be any heavier than it has to be, to accommodate features I don't really want. Even the lightest "tactical" scopes typically weigh over 20 oz. That isn't really a big deal on most rifles, but even so, I don't want to add weight unnecessarily if I gain no practical benefit from doing so. For me and the type of hunting I do, there is no benefit to be gained. I love the Mil Quad reticle. It's my current favorite MIL based reticle. I haven't tried it for hunting, though. The outer posts are pretty bold, but they span pretty far apart in the center and the thin stadia lines of the reticle is pretty thin. It may work o.k. in dim light, but I would prefer something a little thicker and easier to see for a hunting reticle. I used Mark's SS 3-9X42 with Mil Dot reticle for a few months, and I killed a lot of hogs with it. I had no trouble picking up that reticle in low light, but the center of the Mil Quad is thinner than it as best I recall. Optically, I would rank the SS 3-9X42 on par with the Zeiss Conquest / Meopta Meopro level scopes and the 3-15X42 a little below the 3-9. The 3-15 is still pretty decent. I much prefer the 3-9's turrets over the 3-15, and if memory serves, I believe they are shorter than those on the 3-15 as well, though I don't have the 3-9 in my possession to verify. The 3-9 has more distinct clicks. As for parallax, you won't have any more parallax issues with the SS 3-9 than you do with any other 3-9X scope, especially for BG hunting, and most scopes lack parallax adjustment until top end magnification goes beyond 10X. All that being said, I do highly recommend either or both of these scopes even if not for hunting. I think the SS 3-9 makes a better hunting scope than the 3-15, and if SWFA ever offers a capped low profile knob version with a duplex or similar reticle, I will be mounting one on a hunting rifle. But, everyone has their own preferences and priorities. Hope this helps.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Ted used the legendary SS 3-9x of mine that I made The Shot with......(Yeah...that.)
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I'm in the process of writing a folk song about "The Shot" as we speak, Mark!
Speaking of which, do you know of a word that rhymes with "coriolis?"
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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What is the final on this?
Is an SWFA SS scope or a purchase in the near future? |
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Snack_Attack
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/10/2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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What is "the shot". Please forgive my ignorance.
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We've become a nation of wolves ruled by sheep, owned by swine, over fed, and put to sleep.
-Otep |
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