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tucansam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/30/2016 at 09:43
Ordered an Argos BTR 6-24 mil/mil at 9:13PM last night, 6:50AM this morning got the shipping notification (ordered from "COMPETITOR")

Excited to receive this scope.


We are excited for you...
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Edited by Kickboxer - July/07/2016 at 05:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnandersonm777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2016 at 01:08
Those are Alluring! I would like to buy one :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2016 at 00:27
Argos BTR 6-24 mil/mil 


Brown truck dropped it off right as I was leaving for work, so here is my 30-second-didn't-want-to-be-late-should-have-called-in-sick-and-went-shooting review.

Box it comes in is freakin sweet, but I would have preferred a US Optics style cheap white cardboard box and $10 less on the scope price.  Nit picking here.  The foam inside the box is fitted to the scope, its honestly the best protected/packaged scope I've ever bought, hands down.  

Came with lens caps, appear to be unmarked Butler Creeks or clones, but honestly feel more stout that the craptastic BC caps I have on other scopes.  Material seems thicker.  Just popped them open, not sure if they'll lay down flat yet or not.

Not sure about illumination, I couldn't get it to work and didn't have time to see if a battery was included and was maybe just dead (or put in backwards for transport so it didn't run down etc).  Illumination was set to "4" out of the box so maybe the battery is dead, like I said, didn't have time to open it and see.

Came to me with turrets dialed down 1mil and right 1mil, and magnification ring was set to 24x.  Sure hope this isn't another customer's return.

When I opened my back door, as I was putting the scope to my eye, a dove flew onto my back wall at that exact moment.  He was probably 25' away.  At 24x I could not focus him down, but somewhere around 10-14x he came into focus sharp as a bell!  I will never use this scope that close, but I know some guys are running airguns, so I thought I'd mention it.

The reticle is a thing of beauty in all aspects.  I will have to get it out when I have more time and see if the stadia line thickness obscures small targets at long distances.  I don't think the dots in the Christmas tree line up 100% with the mil hashes on the main stadia lines, like others have mentioned (either here or the Hide's thread, I get confused where I read things)

The image was superb.  There was some CA on various elements that I was looking at -- my neighbor's tile roof had a yellow glow around the edges, his white and black basketball backboard had a purple hue around it, etc.  This was at 24x.  Messing with side focus a little helped, turned down the magnification a bit and that helped.  My IOR that I paid four times as much for has CA also, so I am not complaining.  It was overcast and I didn't have a lot of time to zero down on individual tree leaves and what not, but overall the image was clear and crisp.  Gonna have to spend some more time behind it.

Focus knob was smooth and easy to turn.

Magnification ring was smooth and easy to turn.

Turrets... Sloppy.  As in, dial back to "zero" and the line shows you're somewhere between zero and 1 mil, or zero and -1 mil.  This was the case on both windage and elevation.  The clicks were audible and tactile, and felt good overall, pretty crisp.  Very easy to turn.  If I drag the scope through a mesquite tree on a coyote hunt, I will have to check my dope because I feel that there is a very real possibility the turrets will turn if they brush against something hard enough.  Wish there was a little less give in this area, but again, given the price, I'm nit-picking again.

No tracking test yet obviously but I'm hoping to get out and at least shoot some 50y 22LR to see how accurate it tracks.

Overall build quality feels insane for this price.  

I have a USO SN3, IOR Valdada, SWFA 5-25HD and several 3-15s, a, old Bushnell Elite 4200 (Bausch and Lomb rebadge), a Leupold Mark 3, and a few older Weavers (made-in-the-USA steel tube stuff, not the modern stuff).  I've had Vortex Crossfires, Tascos, Zeiss, more Weavers, and a Primary Arms 4-14 from somewhere around the dark ages.  I presently have a healthy mix of what I would personally consider budget, midrange, and high-end glass.  I've shot Vortex Razors and S&Bs belonging to my buddies.  So hopefully I have at least a semi-educated opinion in evaluating this scope.

I save during every year and pick up a couple of SWFA 3-15s every Black Friday, they have been my "go-to" scope for a while now, anytime a new rifle needs glass.  If this Athlon tracks true, it will replace the SWFA as my new go-to scope.  I like the reticle MUCH more than the SWFA, my aging eyes appreciate mag above 15x, 6x on the bottom is still decent for finding targets fast, and the glass seems at least equal.  And the Athlon is way cheaper.  I do like the SWFA's turrets better though.

If you are miil/LEO, ask about the discount.  You will not believe how much scope you get for your money if you pick one of these up (assuming it tracks).  Even the retail/website price is stupid good, considering what you get.  I will probably order a couple more before Athlon gets smart and raises prices.

Things I don't like: send me a cheap box and knock down the price of the scope, only 5mils/rev (nit-picking again as I knew this when I ordered), turrets are a little sloppy and turn a little too easily for my taste (nit-picking, this scope is so inexpensive I feel bad listing negatives), CA (even my high end glass has some).  I could say no zero stop, but I knew that when I bought it, and we can add one ourselves, so its not really a con, I am trying to evaluate the scope as-is given the features in its present configuration.

Overall the few minutes I spent with this scope blew me away.  I should have thrown it into my gear back and taken it to work with me so I could check it out in the desert at dusk and night.  Maybe tomorrow.  

My work gun wears, and I have spent many hours behind, a Leupold Mark 3, at first glance the Athlon's glass is every bit as good if not better.  Also as good or better than my SWFA 3-15s.  I will try to do a side-by-side between the Leupold, Athlon, USO, IOR, SWFA 5-25HD and 3-15 at some point.  The reticle is the bees knees.  A couple of my coworkers run Mark 4's on work guns and USOs and Razors on personal guns, I will try to get them out shooting also.  I am curious to see what they think of this scope, they don't know the company yet so it will be interesting to let them guess how much I paid for the scope.....

Overall completely impressed at first glance, if it tracks true, I will be buying many more, and saving for a Cronus.  Again, primary purpose is to replace the SWFA 3-15, and so far, this scope is going to do that.  Not that the SWFA is bad, but the Athlon offers similar features, more magnification, a better reticle, and cheaper price.

As an aside, I have an old Weaver 1-4 and an SWFA 1-4 on a couple of coyote guns.  I have been contemplating checking out the Athlon 1-4s, not sure yet if I want to go FFP or SFP.  I was looking at the Primary Arms 1-6 for my 300BLK, not sure I want yet another super complicated reticle to learn, may push me over the edge enough to buy an Athlon with a much simpler (cleaner) reticle.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickin45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2016 at 08:45
Great write-up Tucon.
Keep us updated on the tracking and if the turrets improve or get worse. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dsparil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2016 at 17:00
Awesome. With 3 posts, I'm sure we'll be able to find it. Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2016 at 19:15
How about a Mod waking these " folks " up!
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2016 at 20:37
BAN HIM.

ETA I am going to try to get out to the range in the next day or two.  My .22LR is minute-of-shotgun-shell at 100y so I am hoping to do a 50y test for tracking.  I need to make up a large target with lines drawn on it first, or maybe just run a box test and measure it when I get back home.  Hopefully the wind cooperates.

Will post results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2016 at 21:16
He is gone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2016 at 21:18
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

He is gone
You and I were deleting him at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2016 at 01:40
I spent part of the evening getting the Argos BTR mounted on my 22, hoping to get to the range tomorrow.  I hung a plumb bob near by back door and moved to the other part of the house, some distance away, so I could get the scope level.    

A couple of things to note.  

At 24x I was able to focus the scope down almost perfectly.  32 feet, measured, from the door/wall I was looking at to the front of the objective lens.  I ran the power down, and somewhere between 20-22x, the image became perfectly clear.  So focus down to ten yards.... awesome for those who need it.

In playing with the focus ring from behind the scope, I noticed two things.  First, the level of resistance the focus knob offers going back down from 24x to 6x gets stiffer around 17x, and stays stiff until around 14x.  When I dial up from 6x to 24x, the entire range is smooth.  But when dialing from 24x back down to 6x, there is a very discernible bump, rough spot, or something that makes the resistance needed to turn the knob "heavier."  I spent a few minutes cranking the knob back and forth, hoping it was a pile of accumulated grease that just needed to be worked out -- no change.  Its not a show stopper, just something I noticed.

Also, speaking of the power adjustment ring, there is front-to-back movement in the ring, about 1/2mm if I am gentle, and I can deflect it almost a full 1mm if I push and pull on it hard enough.  

Again, probably not a show stopper, and I am still impressed for under $400, but now I am really anxious to get it to the range and start cranking on its various components.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickin45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2016 at 13:40
Has anyone tried a Cronus yet? I'm ready for another high end scope ($2-3k range). But the Cronus has me thinking. I'd love to try it out. Please let us know if you have any experience with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2016 at 14:26
Originally posted by tucansam tucansam wrote:

I spent part of the evening <span style="line-height: 1.4;">getting the Argos BTR mounted on my 22, hoping to get to the range tomorrow.  I hung a plumb bob near by back door and moved to the other part of the house, some distance away, so I could get the scope level.    </span>

A couple of things to note.  

At 24x I was able to focus the scope down almost perfectly.  32 feet, measured, from the door/wall I was looking at to the front of the objective lens.  I ran the power down, and somewhere between 20-22x, the image became perfectly clear.  So focus down to ten yards.... awesome for those who need it.

In playing with the focus ring from behind the scope, I noticed two things.  First, the level of resistance the focus knob offers going back down from 24x to 6x gets stiffer around 17x, and stays stiff until around 14x.  When I dial up from 6x to 24x, the entire range is smooth.  But when dialing from 24x back down to 6x, there is a very discernible bump, rough spot, or something that makes the resistance needed to turn the knob "heavier."  I spent a few minutes cranking the knob back and forth, hoping it was a pile of accumulated grease that just needed to be worked out -- no change.  Its not a show stopper, just something I noticed.

Also, speaking of the power adjustment ring, there is front-to-back movement in the ring, about 1/2mm if I am gentle, and I can deflect it almost a full 1mm if I push and pull on it hard enough.  

Again, probably not a show stopper, and I am still impressed for under $400, but now I am really anxious to get it to the range and start cranking on its various components.



A couple of comments: does the side focus knob still change resistance half way if you loosen there front ring?

Also, what is the closest distance at which you are able to dial out the parallax completely? Sharp focus does not necessarily mean no parallax.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2016 at 03:38
This is why I should not drink rum and Coke before I post.

The focus knob (side focus) is fine.  The _power_ ring is what is giving me some added resistance.  Sorry for the confusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry Atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2016 at 05:32
Ilya´s question is still valid, just substitute "front ring" to "rear ring".


Gerry Atric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skylar McMahon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2016 at 09:59
Originally posted by driller2948 driller2948 wrote:

No Pics

how do you post a pic?  I'm just a grasshopper, but don't see option??? 


Robert, the forum has a minimum post count, prior to being able to attach photos. Once you reach 50 posts, you will have the availability to post pictures.

Please continue to add content here. We appreciate you joining and contributing content to OpticsTalk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2016 at 08:38
Will loosen the scope rings and re-test the mag knob on my next days off.

New questions... Re: Talos BTR.  The 4-14x44 model.  On the website under specifications, it lists "0.2mil" as the "click value."  But the pictures of the scope have "0.1mil" marked on the turrets, and the manual says the same thing (0.1mil).  Which is correct?

Anyone have a Talos BTR and have you compared it with the Argos?  Looking for differences, specifically glass.  I think the Talos is a notch below the Argos, if I am understanding their site correctly.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2016 at 22:29
Update.  Still haven't gotten to the range.  Pulled the scope off to take it to the field to test it with some others, and without the potential lateral torque of being bolted down to a rail, the power ring still "sticks" as previously mentioned.  In addition, after comparing it to the scopes below, I must say I am less than pleased with the turrets.  There is simply too much mush.  They are not terribly accurate, insofar as they rarely land on a mil line when turned.  Still, for the money, this is a LOT of scope.

I don't have a good way to mount my phone (camera) to a scope, so I don't have any pictures through each scope.  But here are some thoughts on how the Athlon compared to a few others.

--

I found a few scopes that were either not mounted to rifles, or had not yet been zeroed to a rifle, and packed them up to take to work with me.  Here are the scopes.



From left to right, Leupold Mark AR 3-9, SWFA SS 3-15, Bushnell (Bausch and Lomb) Elite 4200 6-24 circa 2001, SWFA SS 5-20HD, Athlon Argos BTR 6-24.

Another view:



I also had my Leupold Mark 3 3-9 at work:



Here is what I was looking at.  The red-roofed house with the evergreens is 350m away, and the house with the wooden fence and windmill is 250m away.





As you can see, it was raining and overcast.  Lighting was somewhat poor.  I have been hoping for a bright sunny day, but its monsoon season.  I have days off coming and if I have clear skies, or at least a lot of sunshine, I will spend some more time behind each scope.

On the house with the evergreens, I was looking for color, brightness, and the ability to resolve the lines in the tile roof, aluminum siding, and on the right of the house you will see a black domed object, some sort of trellis.  On the house with the wooden fence, the windmill is stuck over top of a washed out grey/green background.  To the left of the wooden fence there is a red ATV.  To the left of the ATV is a shed with an open door.  Inside that shed, in shadow, is another ATV.  Again, I was looking at color, brightness, and how much detail I could see in the windmill's vanes, the red ATV, and the ATV in the shed that is not getting a lot of light.

The Leupold Mark 3 was the worst of the bunch by far, optically, but has other attributes that make it a good scope (like the fact that is has been extensively abused for its entire existence and still functions perfectly).  The Athlon handily beat the Mark 3 on image quality at six through nine power, not even a contest.  But the Mark 3 has laboratory-like accurate turrets, and has fallen from a helicopter and lived to tell the tale.  It saw service with the Navy's surface warfare folks before I got it, and I've carried it daily for probably nine or ten years now, and I do not treat this scope well at all.

The Leupold Mark AR was a pretty close comparison, at six and nine power both it and the Athlon were super clear, very bright, and had good color.  The Mark AR is, as far as I know, a 150y fixed parallax scope.  But I could still make out a good amount of detail on the houses and ATVs etc.  No issues there, it and the Athlon were pretty identical.

The SWFA 3-15 is the scope that I am thinking of replacing with the Athlon, and its interesting because I literally could not tell the difference between the images at six, nine, and 15 power, aside from the SWFA being perhaps a little brighter.  Could have easily been the changing weather conditions, the sun was setting and the clouds were moving all over the place.  Both are heavy and feel very strongly build.  The Athlon has a better reticle.  The SWFA has MUCH better turrets.  Its a wash.  The images in both scopes were crystal clear, sharp, and bright up ato 15x.  I wish SWFA would make a 5-20 or 6-24 version of this scope, not the HD line in the $1000+ range, but a mil/mil compliment to the 3-15.  A better reticle would be nice too.  SWFA, I would buy a ton of them on your Black Friday sale!

The Bushnell Elite 4200 was surprisingly bright and clear, given its age.  While I presume optics coatings have made many leaps in the last 15 years, this scope held its own with everything else I brought with me.  It was razor sharp and very clear, and super bright.  It outperformed the Athlon above 16x, interesting considering its a 1" tube with a smaller objective.  May have been brighter overall, similar to the SWFA 3-15.

The SWFA 5-20HD completely destroyed the Athlon optically, as one would expect from a $1000+ scope.  But I must say that the difference in image quality and brightness, while noticeable, would not be enough for me to spend another $600+ to get the SWFA.  But the SWFA has other features that I feel trump the Athlon, not the least of which are its turrets.  Again, the Athlon has a vastly superior reticle.

The Athlon began getting VERY critical with eye relief somewhere between 16-17x.  I was holding each scope to my eye with my hands, so take it with a grain of salt, I couldn't hold each scope 100% steady all the time.  But above 16x, the Athlon very clearly became dim, almost brownish in color, and I realized I was starting to see the very beginnings of scope shadow.  Once I played around with my eye position, things got a lot better.  Still, above 16-18x, the Athlon begins to drop a lot of light.  Above 22x its dim indeed.  Not unusable, but again, the old Elite 4200 handily beat the Athlon in image quality at higher mags, as did the SWFA HD.  While usable at 24x, I will personally probably use the Athlon in the 19-22x range, and now I am really glad I didn't buy the 8-32!!!!  I could make out all of the same detail in the houses and objects as all the other scopes, but the ATV in the shed, in the shadow, was lacking in detail above 18x or so, the image simply got too dim.  Still usable for sure, just lacking in detail.  Same with the slots in the aluminum siding, tiles on the roof, vanes on the windmill.  Visible, just without as much "pop" as the others at high mag.

The turrets continue to be not so great indeed.  I don't have any other cheap Chicom stuff to compare it to, ie BSA, PA, etc.  So maybe that's par for the course with these super inexpensive scopes.  I hate to sound critical, the Athlon is truly a marvel of price/performance (at least optically, still gotta do the tracking test).  But if anyone from Athlon is reading, if you gave me more precise turrets, and/or 10mil/rev, and/or a legit zero stop, I would pay twice as much for this scope to get those features.  Cranking a turret and being off by 0.1 or 0.2mil on a 22LR at 50y won't even be noticeable, but I was planning on putting this on a 24" 308, and at 1100y, 0.1mil can make a difference.

Still very impressed with the scope and anxious to get it to the range for tracking and what not.  

As an aside, and to add to my previous post, I pulled my SWFA 1-4 (not the HD) out of my safe and its length and weight specs are very similar to the Athlon Argos BTR 1-4, which I may buy in the next couple of weeks.  I love the SWFA, but the reticle is more complex than a traditional mil reticle, the center is cluttered, and I'd rather devote the time learning how to use it to something else.  For that reason, the Athlon has appeal, with its more "standard" mil reticle.  I am curious to compare them side by side.  Biggest thing will be if the Athlon's illum is daytime visible.  I was not a huge fan of FFP scopes in the 1-4 or 1-6 range, but if I can turn it into a legit "dot sight" at 1x, with daytime visible brightness, and then crank to 4x for a ranged shot, it would be a winner at this price point.  I hate dot sights but do like holo sights (was a fan of EOTech until they knowingly screwed LEO and .mil) and in particular prismatics, but a variable that can do a dot's job at true 1x and add magnification when needed would find a home on almost all of my ARs.  The other question, and I think I mentioned it before, is that Athlon's site lists the 1-4's turret at 0.2mil/click, while the pictures and manual list 0.1mil/click.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickin45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2016 at 13:54
Great write up and comparison. Thanks much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucansam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2016 at 03:42
Scope is going back to Athlon.  I will contact them tomorrow and arrange to have it looked at and/or replaced, unless they have some advice that works.  Here are some turret pics from tonight.  This is completely unacceptable, unfortunately, even at this price point.

--

I pulled off the elevation turret to inspect the internals.  

Here is "Zero."  As close to zero as I could get when putting it back on.  



Here is one click "up"



And again, here is one click down, back to "Zero"




From Zero, here is five clicks "up"



Five more "up"



Five more "up"



Looks halfway decent, until I dial back down to zero, here is 14 down:




That was 15 up, and 14 down.  14 down landed perfectly on zero, one more down, for a total of 15, landed somewhere between zero and 0.1mil down.

I ran the turret up and down several times, in the middle of its range of adjustment, and also near the top and bottom of its adjustment range, and I get the same thing every time.  The zero "floats."  Sometimes I can land on zero, and when I do, dialing up or down lands me sometimes on a marked line, and sometimes in between lines.  Dialing back down to zero sometimes lands me on zero, and sometimes lands me either 0.1 left or right of zero, or somewhere in the middle (0.05mil left or right)

--

After much cranking, I got it back to "zero," but only by turning somewhere in between clicks, ie, probably riding on the bearing in the turret:




Five up




Ten up




And at that point zero went back to the actual zero line on the scope.  

So basically, none of the adjustments are repeatable, or accurate, or reliable, at all.

Windage was the same, although I did not pull the windage turret off, it is as it came from the factory.  It started at zero, perfectly.  10 right landed on 1, 20 right landed on 2.05ish, 30 right landed on 3.1, and 40 right landed on 4.2.  40 back left to zero landed on 0.1 left of zero.

A second test of the above windage test was *perfect*, landing on the actual numbered line each time, through 50 clicks.  But then dialing back to zero, 50 clicks back left, it landed on 0.1 from zero.

It seems to help if I dial *quickly*, but if I dial slowly, or only dial a few clicks at a time, major problems.  If I want it to go back to zero, or land perfectly on a witness mark, I have to dial past that point, and then back.  IE, dial down past zero, then back up to it.  Or dial left past zero, then back right.  Then it landed on the correct spot.  Sometimes.

I still had my SWFA 3-15 off my rifle and, while I've never had tracking problems with it, I decided to run the same tests.  Flawless, 100%, every time.  5/10/20 up/down etc landed on the exact spot, perfectly, every time.  Clicks were 100% solid and precise, vs the very mushy Athlon, which has a tremendous amount of play between each click, and can't seem to line up with witness marks more than half the time.



Edited by tucansam - July/28/2016 at 04:07
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