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FBI returning to 9mm

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Peddler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 11:53
Very true! Loved those stick figures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 12:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osprey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:11
I wonder if they all have the same effect in real world applications as opposed to simulated tests?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:18
Originally posted by osprey osprey wrote:

I wonder if they all have the same effect in real world applications as opposed to simulated tests?

Statistically: yes.

In practice: it is all about shot placement.  A hit with a 9mm is far superior to a miss with a bazooka.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:21
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by osprey osprey wrote:

I wonder if they all have the same effect in real world applications as opposed to simulated tests?

Statistically: yes.

In practice: it is all about shot placement.  A hit with a 9mm is far superior to a miss with a bazooka.

ILya
Depends on how far the miss is…

Shot placement sure… however, max ME (commercial loads) is about 540ft/lb… for 45 ACP about 850.  There will definitely be a different "reaction" to a "hit", especially in a non-vital zone.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:27
850 ft/lb for a .45 ACP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osprey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:28
Good to know, I have held off on the buying of an 9mm on some of the same stated reasons above. I once heard an instuctor at a range say shooting 9mm is like shooting nerf balls at someone, that was several years back though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:34
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

850 ft/lb for a .45 ACP?


That does seem quite high.  Thats more like moderate 44 mag energy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:40
Yes, for the millions who have succumbed to the 9mm, wake up, you're not dead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 13:47
Originally posted by osprey osprey wrote:

Good to know, I have held off on the buying of an 9mm on some of the same stated reasons above. I once heard an instuctor at a range say shooting 9mm is like shooting nerf balls at someone, that was several years back though.

Next time you hear that instructor offer to first shoot him with a nerf ball and then with a 9mm.

That should clear things up. 

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:01
Is the increase in effectiveness from nerf ball to 9mm to .45 ACP linear?
Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:13
The 9mm was good enough for a certain army in WWII, just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:17
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

The 9mm was good enough for a certain army in WWII, just saying.

Yep. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:26
Originally posted by osprey osprey wrote:

I wonder if they all have the same effect in real world applications as opposed to simulated tests?


Did you read the article linked?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:28
Here's some actual, real world engagement data that supports the premise:

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4593
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osprey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:40
All four do seem almost indistinguishable, I suppose it comes down to personal preference?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 14:53
Originally posted by osprey osprey wrote:

I suppose it comes down to personal preference?

For the "shooter" or the "shootee"?? Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 15:07
Here's another. Note the one shot stop %, fatal shots %, and # rounds until incapacitation. It shows very little difference between 9mm and .45 effectiveness, despite data being drawn from over 2X more 9mm engagements.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866


Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 15:08
2 takeaways for me:

1. I don't want to be shot with any handgun chambering.
2. ALL defensive handguns suck when compared to rifles.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2014 at 15:09
I sense a disturbance in the Force......


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