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CAST YOUR VOTE: What's the best long-range scope?

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PrecisionRifleBlog View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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    Posted: March/14/2014 at 13:53
First, I have a LOT of respect for the guys in this forum. You have definitely taught me a lot about optics, so I wanted to see if you'd mind weighing in on a little poll I created on long-range scopes.

In a few weeks, I’m starting a large field test for popular tactical scopes in the $1,500+ price range (plan to test $500-1,500 scopes later this year). Like my rangefinder field test, I'm attempting to have an objective, data-driven approach using a series of empirical tests that focus on:
  • Optical Quality (resolution/clarity, contrast, brightness, etc)
  • Mechanical Precision & Repeatability (tracking, return to zero, internal adjustments etc)
Here are the 17 scopes I'm planning to include in the $1500+ price range field test:
  • Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21x50
  • Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50
  • Hensoldt ZF 3.5-26x56
  • Kahles K 6-24x56
  • Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44
  • Leupold Mark 8 3.5-25x56
  • March 3-24x52 FFP
  • Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50
  • Nightforce 5-25x56 ATACR
  • Nightforce BEAST 5-25x56
  • Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25x56
  • Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-27x56
  • Steiner Military 5-25x56
  • US Optics ER25 5-25x58
  • Valdada IOR 3.5-18x50
  • Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
  • Zeiss Victory FL Diavari 6–24x56
But before I start testing, I thought it’d be fun to see what the opinion of the shooting community was on these scopes. So I created a poll with just 2 questions:
  1. Overall Performance: Which scope will perform the best overall in the field tests, regardless of price?
  2. Value: Which scope will provide great performance in the field test (i.e. end up in the top 50%) for the lowest price?
If you'd like to cast your vote, please visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/03/13/best-tactical-scope/. Thanks for your help!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 14:28
Take a look at the Sightron line SIII they are showing up at long rifle matches. They are slightly below your requirement price of 1500 but provide a big bang for the buck.

Regards,
dsr

http://swfa.com/Sightron-10-50x60-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P65927.aspx

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PrecisionRifleBlog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:10
Hey, thanks a lot for the tip. Someone had mentioned Sightron to me, but I haven't had any experience with them. So this confirms that I should include them in the 2nd round of this field test, which will focus on $500-1500 scopes. They're in.

If anyone else has suggestions for either class of scope, I'd appreciate it. I really think it is going to be difficult to narrow down the $500-1500 price range to just 20 scopes, so if you know of a great scope please let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:21
You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 15:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 17:56
SS HD 5-20X50 is the best I have had my hands at  $1,500 If you don't include it, you are missing out on great value with quality.
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

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Now the rules have changed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Obi Wan Kenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2014 at 20:15
The Zeiss, S&B then the Kahles.
 
I'm surprised you don't have the Swarovski 5-25x52s on your list. That is also one damn fine long range scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 00:49
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

SS HD 5-20X50 is the best I have had my hands at  $1,500 If you don't include it, you are missing out on great value with quality.


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 02:13
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:00
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya

If you say so....Expert analysis, like yours, trumps some internet dude's musings on the same subject. 

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 

If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:13
Is that anything like four enema's?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 08:51
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 



...and knowing what I know about your prowess in the field of quantum physics, I believe you should, my friend!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skylar McMahon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 16:38
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 



...and knowing what I know about your prowess in the field of quantum physics, I believe you should, my friend!
 
If he does, he should start with a book called " Alice in Quantumland"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 16:52
Face it Sky; Mark OWES it to all of mankind. To keep so much brilliance locked up inside that Beautiful Mind of his without it being put to good use for the advancement of humanity would be a crying shame!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 17:39
 
 
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Edited by budperm - March/18/2014 at 17:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 17:45
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

You have NO SS scopes on your list. 

Mr. Koshkin has already done extensive testing on his blog. Not sure where your going with this. 

There is always room for more opinions, especially differing ones.

ILya

If you say so....Expert analysis, like yours, trumps some internet dude's musings on the same subject. 

I could start a blog on quantum physics...Thinking 


Quantum physics is not rocket science.  It's just a little math.

All that aside, I looked at the guy's blog.  He seems to be an IT guy, and he likes playing with data.  I think he's got all his accomplishments listed there:

He is probably a competent shot, so it will be interesting to see how far he takes this.  It will definitely be itnersting to see what he finds in his mechanical tests.

He does not seem to know much about optics, but it is not rocket science either.  If he is so inclined, I am sure he can figure it out.

He does claim that he will do an objective comparison, so I am very curious to see how he is going to do an objective optics comparison.  It is not very difficult, but not as straightforward as people think.  He specifically calls out a few things including clarity.  I would like to see how he will set up an objective clarity test.


ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verminator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2014 at 18:43
did a back to back with these 2..Kahles Competition K1050 10-50x56 and a PM2..12-50x56 the PM2 was the winner  the kahles was a close secondBig Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrecisionRifleBlog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 17:42
Thanks for all the tips. I did actually try to include the Swaro 5-30, but couldn't get anyone there to respond (even though I talked to them about this at SHOT in person and they seemed interested ... frustrating). They were a borderline case, because they really don't have a tactical reticle with even marks on the horizontal and vertical axis ... so I'm not too disappointed.

For the optical resolution tests, I plan to tackle that in a few different ways. One of which is FinnAccuracy's resolution test, which seems very well thought out. But you guys are right, I'm a novice at best when it comes to optics ... so if you guys have any other suggestions I'm all ears.So that helps too. That is actually why I posted this here. I know the optics experts live here, so I'm looking for input.

My competency here is really that I'm an OCD engineer, which helps me be logical and objective ... and I've also had a lot of formal training and professional experience in analyzing data and representing it visually.

I plan to be 100% transparent and publish all the details about how I performed the tests and gathered the data. In fact, I could share the rough draft of that if anyone was interested in looking it over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2014 at 19:18
Swarovski has no interest in their scopes being used tactically they wish to remain geared toward hunting and recreational target shooting. 
 
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2014 at 14:37
Originally posted by PrecisionRifleBlog PrecisionRifleBlog wrote:

Thanks for all the tips. I did actually try to include the Swaro 5-30, but couldn't get anyone there to respond (even though I talked to them about this at SHOT in person and they seemed interested ... frustrating). They were a borderline case, because they really don't have a tactical reticle with even marks on the horizontal and vertical axis ... so I'm not too disappointed.

For the optical resolution tests, I plan to tackle that in a few different ways. One of which is FinnAccuracy's resolution test, which seems very well thought out. But you guys are right, I'm a novice at best when it comes to optics ... so if you guys have any other suggestions I'm all ears.So that helps too. That is actually why I posted this here. I know the optics experts live here, so I'm looking for input.

My competency here is really that I'm an OCD engineer, which helps me be logical and objective ... and I've also had a lot of formal training and professional experience in analyzing data and representing it visually.

I plan to be 100% transparent and publish all the details about how I performed the tests and gathered the data. In fact, I could share the rough draft of that if anyone was interested in looking it over.

The FinnAccuracy charts are definitely a good start, but you have to be a little careful with what magnifications you test and how you calibrate the relative magnifications of different scopes.

Following FA's instructions is a bit misleading because they do not understand how a focal telescopes work and how imaging works.  For example, the results of your resolution measurements are not really comparable between different days or even between morning and afternoon of the same day.

Most importantly, you should more or less give up claiming to have an objective test of the optical quality of the riflescopes.  Unless, you plan to invest a lot of money into specialized equipment, there really is not way to do an objective test.  However, if you set  things up correctly, you can do a pretty good differential evaluation.  You just have to keep track of ambient conditions between different days of the test and in which sequence you tested the scopes.

ILya
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