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Precision Rem700 ?'s

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mil169 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mil169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2014 at 09:47
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

here is what your looking for for under $1K shipped
 
 
This isn't the same stock as Savage shows on the website. Maybe an older model? i prefer the looks of the stock on website, an A5 I believe.
 
What about this one:
 


Edited by mil169 - February/26/2014 at 12:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mil169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2014 at 19:39
I think it will come down between a Savage Model 10 FCPK (part #18608) or a Remington 700P. Is the consensus that the Savage will likely shoot better than the Remington out of the box?
 
I guess I'll throw one more into the mix. The Savage Model 10 FP-SR (part #19127). Any thoughts on these particular rifles.
 
Thanks for the help


Edited by mil169 - February/26/2014 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 07:25
I have to admit that my very limited budget pretty much forced me down the Savage road...
 
Having said that.... I have 3 Savages all bolts.  223, 270 and 300WM.  All of them stock and all shoot 3/4 MOA or less out of the box... I've come to love the Accu-trigger!  It seems I've heard of more troubles for remy 700s the last 3-5 years.  Remy still has a total lock on available accessories and upgrades while Savage after market suff is much harder to come by...
 
I can't get pass the bang for your buck without necessary upgrades driving the price sky high...
They are a great starting point anyway you look at it...
 
The Tikka T3 has a stellar reputation for a smooth action and tight bolt and being good shooters.
I have been playing with the idea that my first custom build might be on a T3 action...  T3 are a long action only.  I would be building a 6 to 7mm gun so it wouldn't matter rto me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 09:59
For Remington Triggers,if you can find the 40-X models laying around they're a pretty good deal and work very well.  The older models are out there as well.  The Mark-X-Pro's can be adjusted after you get all the "lawyer-grease" out but to me they aren't as good as the older versions.
 
As far as smoothness, my stainless steel 204's (THLVSS models made in 2008) are very smooth in comparison to the SPS Varmint model I converted last year. 
 
The barrels; most of mine have been pretty good but with any mass-produced item, some can get through the QA process.
 
Don't know about other manufacturers but one of my biggest gripes with Remington is their refusal to sell some of their parts, especially to the end user.  Some can go through gunsmiths but others such as bolts; the company just flat out refuses to sell.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 10:07
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

 
The Tikka T3 has a stellar reputation for a smooth action and tight bolt and being good shooters.



Tikka makes a tactical in 308 that is very nice and they are definitely shooters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 10:17
BTW apparently there are different Rem 5R barreled rifles out there. This is the one that I have and I know it is a shooter. And I have not heard of anyone else s that was not a shooter. But I am not sure about the other Rem 5Rs that I saw.

http://www.onlinegundeals.com/ItemDetails/796270414/REMINGTON_700_STAINLESS_SPECIAL_5_R_MILSPEC_BARREL_308CAL_NE.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 17:54

I went down the same road as you a couple years ago. Here is my suggestion:

  1. Find the cheapest R700 you can find from wal - mart or somewhere similar for about $400
  2. Order a custom barrel from any of the reputable barrel makers (Bartlein, Krieger, Rock, Hart etc...) and have them cut it to whichever caliber you want to use. I highly recommend the 6.5mm. It can be had in many different short action chamberings, and some long action chamberins. The 6.5 will out perform the 308 when shooting at distance because it will not drift as much in the wind. I have a bartlein chambered in 308 Winchester, but had I known better, I would have gotten it cut for the 6.5mm. $315
  3. Send your barreled action and custom barrel to a well known gunsmith. I sent mine to Phoenix Custom Rifles and it shoots .25 moa or better in an unbedded stock. Anyway, have them chamber your barrel to whatever you want, I like the 6.5x47 Lapua; I hear its easy to find a good loading for and it has a long barrel life. And also have them "blueprint" your action and bolt. This only has to be done once and it will ensure you achieve the best performance out of your precision rifle. $500-$550
  4. Buy whatever stock you want. For simplicity, lets say a Bell and Carlson or HS Precision with an aluminum bedding block. $250
  5. Get a new trigger. A timney will run around $125, not sure about the Rifle Basix that Rancid mentioned. $125

Later on get your stock inletted or buy a new stock that will take AICS magazines if you plan to compete with this rifle. And your total will be about... $1600 a lot more than your $1000 limit but you will have a rifle that will outshoot you for a long time in a performance chambering that will outperform any other short action (if that's what you want) commercially available rifle.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mil169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 20:52
That sounds like a good plan Gil, but as you stated it gets way over budget. Someday I would like to get a rifle built that is built completly to my specs, but for now I will stick with a mainly factory build.
 
I found the Savage 10 FCP (#19055) today. It has a threaded 24" barrel, accustock, accutrigger and 5R 11.25 rifling. Looks like Bud's has it for a touch under $800. Might be the best option yet.
 
Still thinking though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 22:08

I like Gil's plan but with some tweaking. Now is the right time of yr to hit the pawn shops and shops that carry used gun. Look for the rough stuff that the bolt functions good. Try to get em down to 300.00 if possible. Getting harder to do these days. Tell em you don't need the scope if its got one and make em a offer. I've used Krieger for my last few builds and its hard to recommend anyone else. The reason I do stay with them is their barrels have been beyond excellent. They go above and beyond for quality and hand lapping even though their cuts are so good they really don't need it. But that makes them all the better. These barrels just don't seem to foul and they clean super easy. But Pac-Nor is apparently steppin up their game. They Button rifle and hand lap their barrels also and last time I checked their wait time is 1/3 of Krieger's. Now to the dollars. If you can find a donor action for 400.00 or less, then the barrel lets say a light to medium varmint no fluting and have them true and fit your action. 300 to 350.00 for the barrel and 175ish to set your action. Usually Remington actions (I prefer Remington) cost less but they can true most actions these days. Your in the ball park of 950.00 and need a stock. You could luck up and get a fair stock with the donor gun and just bed and free float yourself. Or shop around and catch a B&C for around 250.00. Next thing is are you gonna load your own or shoot factory? Shootin factory really plays into caliber due to availability. For short action go 308, for long action go 300WM. Both have a good variety of bullet options and are not impossible to find. If your gonna load (recommended) I suggest 7mm. Until recently I had a very healthy dislike for 7mm mostly out of a bad experience with a mule kicker and ignorance. Mostly ignorance. But for ballistics and some really good bullet options these days you won't find a better round. It is very adequate for big game and offers the best long range ballistics you'll find. But with the 7mm you'll have to shop magnum bolt face actions only. You also have the choice of standard 7mm or the 7mmwsm which if I had thoughts of shootin 1K or more I'd go with the WSM. Remember to pay attention to bolt face when shoppin actions (standard or magnum). My first build yrs ago I found a deal and bought before I thought. Still built a great rifle from it but had to find another donor for the intended project.

Good Luck! Keep us posted on what you decide.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2014 at 23:04
Sgt. D made some good suggestions as well. Like he said, if you reload your ammo you have a lot more options available to you. I have never owned a Savage, but the downside will be the more limited aftermarket support. Some smiths wont work on them. Still, a 24inch threaded barrel with an 11.25 twist sounds like the perfect combination for the 175gr sierra matchking. I love this bullet, federal and black hills have factory ammunition available with this bullet. Another upside is $800 and the stock sucks, you still have some cash left over to buy a new one. Keep in mind, if you spend more now you will save a ton of money later. If you want to be a serious shooter, you will also need to start reloading. You can tailor your loads to your rifle and gain accuracy and ballistic performance over factory ammunition; its also the only thing that makes this sport affordable. Have you looked into reloading?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2014 at 06:06
Savage's older poly stock were terrible, flimsy and often not true...  The newer ACCU-stock is a vast improvement with alum bedding to stiffen.  My first savage (.270) has the flimsy stock and still shoots sub-MOA out of the box.  My long Range hunter in 300WM has the newer accu-stock and it is worlds better than the older stock.  People seem to be totally tainted by the older flimsy stocks and won't even give the accu-stock a chance...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2014 at 07:45
I horse traded and got a Savage 12 223 that had been cut down to 22".  It had a cheap stock on it that was about the same stiffness as a wet noodle.   I wanted to be cheap so I bought one of the boyd tacticalcool stocks for it planning to add pillers and bed it.  Well just to see how it shot I just tossed it in the stock and went out to test a few loads.  Dang thing groups less than .5MOA as is.  I can't justify messing with a thing on it.  Its stacking 53gr barnes tsx's on top of each other at 100.   I think now there are plenty of options for savage to justify it over a remington.  they are increasingly popular because they are shooters and cheaper initial investment.   I can't think of one aftermarket product TYPE that is not availble for savage either.  PLUS! the user can change the barrel themselves with a barrel nut wrench and some headspace gauges!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2014 at 10:09
I second Gil and Sgt D's recommendations above.

The Remmie 5R is a good rifle and not a bad choice, but I would go the custom barrel and stock route, to get exactly what you want and have a superior final product. Find the cheapest, beat up, used Rem 700 rifle you can find or just an action, if possible -- whichever is cheaper -- as you just want the action and magazine parts only.

Yank the barrel, throw away the stock, and rebarrel the action. To add to what Sgt D said, Kreiger certainly makes outstanding barrels, but nowadays so does all the other "name" custom barrel makers. My decision on whether to go with Krieger, Bartlein, Broughton, Rock Creek, Obermeyer, Brux, Hart, Shilen, Lilja, Pac-Nor, McGowen, Mullerworks, Benchmark, etc. would all come down to which one offered the combination of rifling profile, twist, and contour you wanted and which one is able to deliver in the shortest time. Truthfully, despite the differences in rifling methods used, which I believe doesn't mean a hill of beans, there is no difference in the quality of the respective maker's barrel blanks. All of them have produced world-class barrels, and all of them have occasionally produced barrels that were below their usual standards of excellence.

There is no difference in materials used -- all of the above manufacturers use 416R stainless and 4140/4150/4340 chrome moly steel blanks from the same suppliers, namely either Carpenter or Crucible Steel. Regardless of how the rifling was formed, either single point cut rifling or button rifling, what matters is the fact they all hold the same tolerances on bore diameter and uniformity. They all lap the bores before and after rifling.

Choosing the right twist and the quality of work from the smith doing the threading, chambering, and crowning is far more important to achievable precision than brand of barrel used. Despite the "flavor of the month" tendencies in the gun community and the subsequent "brand X is the best" arguments on the internet, all of the above brands have been used in competition, all have their share of wins and losses against the other brands in various shooting disciplines. As long as the rifle using one of these barrels was put together properly and a good load for the rifle was used...it's the Indian, not the bow that matters. All brands can be made to look good or bad depending on the shooter using it.

Keep in mind that the "flavor of the month" brands at any given time usually have a VERY long delivery time. If you want a Krieger or Rock Creek, especially, you can pretty much bank on waiting at least 6 months to get it, unless you buy their blanks from a supplier who has them in stock. I waited for nearly a year for a Rock Creek barrel I bought in 2012. Conversely, I've bought 2 Broughtons during the same time period, both of which I received within 2 months of order. Between the brands I own and rifles I've shot owned by others, I've shot most of the brands mentioned. If there is a difference in performance between them, I'm obviously not a good enough shooter to discern that difference.

I'm a believer in the "5R" or "5C" style rifling. I won't go into the reasons why here, and some of those reasons are admittedly only theoretical anyway, so I can't say for certain this style of rifling is unquestionably superior to standard rifling or using a different number of grooves. There are subtle differences between the 5R and 5C rifling profiles, but they both supposedly accomplish the same "benefits." If you do decide to get 5R or 5C style rifling, you're limited to Obermeyer, Krieger, Bartlein, Rock Creek, Brux (5R) or Broughton (5C). There may be a couple others that now offer 5R; I'm not sure.

As for caliber, I would recommend going with something in either 6.5 or 7mm, to take advantage of the super high BC and excellent selection of precision bullets in those diameters. .30 caliber is blessed with an excellent selection of bullets as well, but to get the same drift and drop performance of 6.5 and 7mm in .308 involves a significant increase in recoil, which isn't such a good thing in a rifle you plan to shoot a lot during each session.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mil169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2014 at 21:06
Man, you guys certainly know your rifles. If this was going to be a one and done gun, I would definitely  go with the custom route. I don't currently reload, nor do I have the time to completely dive into that world right now. Someday, I will. Hopefully sooner than later. Right know I'm searching for a range close enough to stretch out to 400 yds, yet alone get out to 800 or so. I also don't compete, and shoot mainly for my own enjoyment.  If I'm able to find a place to get to, and I truly enjoy the long distance stuff I will build the custom gun and do the reload stuff. So be prepared to answer those questions later on as well.
 
I think I settled on the Savage 5R for now. At $800 it's hard to pass up. So paired with the SS 3-15x42 with a good base and set of rings I wil believe I will have a good set-up for $1600 or so. I think I would get into the $1500 dollar range for the rifle alone on the custom road. I'll certainly keep my eyes open, and maybe be lucky to come across a good bargain on a 700 and throw it in the safe until I'm ready to get a build going.
 
Thanks for the experience,insight and suggestions, it was greatly appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Porkchop88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2014 at 00:19

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Porkchop88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2014 at 00:22
Here is my 5R far from done but its a solid rifle. I still like savages but I believe a remmy has more options to build on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mil169 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2014 at 18:20
Nice looking rifle there and thanks for the interest. I'm still going back and forth on this one. I found a place in Colorado- Red Hawk Rifles- who do a "semi-custom" build on a 700 action. They take a 26 SPS varmint for the longer barrel builds and put it into an A1 2958 series Bell and Carlson Medalist Sendero style stock with a full CNC machined aluminum bedding chassis. They make sure the barrel is free floated, check the bore, polish the lugs and feed ramps for a base price of $895. The have a host of other options available.
 
 
 
Does anyone know more about them? Not sure if I should go this route or stay with a Remmy 5R if I decide I have to have a Remington.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Porkchop88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2014 at 10:00
I have actually heard of them but mainly from searching Gunbroker. I have read there reviews on there website but I haven't found any individual who has used them. I know there prices are decent and it seems like he is just turning a profit by restocking and minor gunsmithing. The stocks on the sps varmints aren't that great anyways so its a step in the right direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2014 at 10:29
Originally posted by mil169 mil169 wrote:

Nice looking rifle there and thanks for the interest. I'm still going back and forth on this one. I found a place in Colorado- Red Hawk Rifles- who do a "semi-custom" build on a 700 action. They take a 26 SPS varmint for the longer barrel builds and put it into an A1 2958 series Bell and Carlson Medalist Sendero style stock with a full CNC machined aluminum bedding chassis. They make sure the barrel is free floated, check the bore, polish the lugs and feed ramps for a base price of $895. The have a host of other options available.
 
 
 
Does anyone know more about them? Not sure if I should go this route or stay with a Remmy 5R if I decide I have to have a Remington.


Since I can get a Rem 5R that I listed above for $1085. For $190 I would go with that Rem 5R. I know that those versions are very good shooters. The Rem 5R has been discussed here so do a search for them to see what their experiences are. The other 5R versions I do not know about. I would also take the Savage before the SPS semi-custom as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2014 at 10:31
Originally posted by Porkchop88 Porkchop88 wrote:

  I know there prices are decent and it seems like he is just turning a profit by restocking and minor gunsmithing. 


I find the same rifle for $600 and the stocks for $265.
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