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50mm and sometimes bigger front glass? |
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JD548
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/29/2013 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Posted: July/31/2013 at 16:31 |
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whats the deal with all these big glass scopes?
every time i get a sale circular there are like a dozen or so scopes with 50mm glass. in theory the big glass equals more light. however my low power 1-4x scopes seem to do well in the dark except the 1-6x china doll thwhen turned up to 6x. the 35mm vortex diamondback seems as bright on 6x as a 40mm tube so whats up? does the big "58 ford headlight" glassed scopes help at night or something? is bigger really better? or is there some drawback that limits how much light a tube can draw past a certain point? |
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 4569 |
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There is some good info in this post. I would read these.
http://www.opticstalk.com/exit-pupil-light-transmission-30mm-vs_topic5023.html |
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Oldtrader3
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/16/2009 Location: WA (state) Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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Read about exit pupil and twilight factor (a little) and realize that European's hunt at night from stands in the pitch dark and use objective lenses up to 60mm. None of this affects the average whitetail hunter, who hunts until 1/2 hour after sunset or before dawn.
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CDR3
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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I have found the 40-50 to bee unobtrusive.
KB how is that 72 working out for you and what was the brand of that scope and how did you ever get that in your hands.
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No one
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Are you speaking of the 6-24x72 HENSOLDT that my wife purchased for me??? I have not hunted with it yet, but have carried it around on the 338 quite a bit... just getting a feel for it. It is not a burden and it is exceptional in all legal hunting conditions. Sometimes I just go walk around in the woods around my house, hoping a coyote or some other predator will come around... no joy yet. I intend to hunt with it this year. This is going to be a BIG hunting year for me. I convinced my wife that we need a new refrigerator AND a freezer and that we should keep the "old" refrigerator. Now, I just have to fill them...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Those huge objective scopes are much more commonplace in countries outside the US due to different hunting laws and customs. If our hunting laws here in the States allowed us to hunt BG all night long, I'd probably suffer a 56mm scope. Until then, I've been more than happy with the light transmission I get from 50mm and smaller objective scopes. Given this, I'll take a less obtrusive, less expensive, lighter, lower mounted scope vs. marginally improved light transmission that only benefits me during times I can't legally hunt anyway.
I do hunt feral hogs and predators at night on occasion, though. That is legal where I live because neither hogs nor predators are considered regulated game animals. For that application, I could benefit from a 56mm and larger objective. But, since I don't have rifles dedicated only to hog and predator hunting, and since I use kill lights and night hunt during bright moonlight, I've never been willing to accept the tradeoffs of going larger than 50mm. Beyond 50mm is where most scope mount systems require high mounts. In general, I just dislike the objective bell on my scope to be significantly wider than my rifle's forend and it becomes more difficult to fit 2 rifles in a 2-gun hard case when the scopes protrude too high above the rifles. For these reasons, most of my hunting rifles wear 32 - 44mm objectives, and I've never felt handicapped by that fact. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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Hunt some trees is what I thought the motto here was...???
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No one
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Hunter22
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/18/2013 Location: Madison Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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If you take the size of the objective divided by the magnification you get exit pupil. So say you have a 50mm an a 40mm scope on 10x. Your 50mm has an exit pupil of 5 and the 40mm has an exit pupil of 4. The image will appear brightest when the exit pupil is equal , or larger than, the pupil of the eye. The human eye pupil can change in size from roughly 2mm to 7mm depending on age and lighting conditions. During a super bright day when your eye pupil is smallest, you most likely will not notice any difference. During low light conditions where you eye is dilated you are more likely to notice a difference. It also depends on what magnification you have your scope on, the lower the magnification the brighter the image, hence the larger exit pupil.
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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JD548
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/29/2013 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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lets just say --
if one was to shoot feral hogs that was attacking his crops at night and one wanted a scope that could really suck in the light would a 50mm or bigger be better? i'm not talking a deer hunting scope for deer season. i'm talking a night-time pest control deal-- some of the 50s ain't that much more weight, only the ford headlight sticking out the end makes um kinda tall--LOL! |
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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In general, yes. What really factors into the exit pupil size is the effective aperture size, which may or may not be the same as the "specification" objective diameter. If the scope is stopped down internally, you may not actually be getting the full benefit of the objective lens diameter. Also, a larger exit pupil isn't the lone contributor to low light performance. Besides image quality and transmission values of the optic, magnification also matters. A "bright" optic with a huge exit pupil at low magnification may be inferior in terms id'ing your target to a smaller exit pupil at higher magnification due to greater resolving detail. The best low light performance comes with a balance of both -- sufficient magnification for good detail and sufficient exit pupil size for the magnification used, combined with great optics. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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JD548
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/29/2013 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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http://www.samplelist.com/-P63100.aspx
how does this 50mm 3-9x look for night time wild hog zapping?? |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Being able to see the reticle in night time or real low light hunting is very important. And all ill. reticle scopes are not created equal.
Here are a few known good ones. http://swfa.com/Trijicon-25-10x56-Accu-Point-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P12880.aspx http://swfa.com/Meopta-3-12x56-Meostar-R1-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53878.aspx http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-9x50-VX-R-30mm-Riflescope-P48018.aspx http://swfa.com/Zeiss-3-12x50-Conquest-Duralyt-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51699.aspx This one is not 50mm, but because of the lower mag range it is a very good low light scope. http://swfa.com/Meopta-15-6x42-Meostar-R1-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53612.aspx And ones that are good but not 50mm or larger. http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3-9x40-Accu-Point-Rifle-Scope-P12872.aspx http://swfa.com/IOR-25-10x42-Hunting-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P3043.aspx |
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Hunter22
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/18/2013 Location: Madison Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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You are spot on, I just didn't want to go over his head. He was referring to how the Objective Size affects light, there are defineatly more factors than just the size of the Objective that go into low light performance. |
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JD548
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/29/2013 Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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that meostar R1 30mm looks about perfect. only thing is it costs a whole $1K--
i may just trap them . costs $$ to trap them mostly in the feeding um out but there is less waste. and i suppose i could use a few TONS of pork sausage-- |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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All else being equal... yes, bigger is better for ultimate low light performance. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Oldtrader3
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/16/2009 Location: WA (state) Status: Offline Points: 445 |
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Just make sure that the exit pupil is 5mm or larger.
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CDR3
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