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How would you rate these?

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stilhuntin View Drop Down
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    Posted: May/05/2013 at 17:22
Can't make up my mind. How would you rate the following for deer hunting 200-300 yards in low light (30 minutes past sun down)? The more research I do the less I see a clear winner!
All are in the same price range and 30 mm or 1 inch doesn't matter to me. I will be hunting from a stand most of the time. I know the Leica has a smaller objective lens, but I have heard many good things about them and the others as well.

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

Hope you guys don't mind all the questions and posts, but this the most knowledgable and friendly group I have seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 18:12
  Questions and posts don't cost a thing so ask away.
 
  Most knowledgable and friendly group?  Yep.  Takes patience of Job sometimes but it worth it.  Big Grin
 
  SORRY I can't help with your scope inquiries but you'll get the help your looking for I'm sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idahotrophyhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 18:52
I would rate ALL them below a Schmidt & Bender Zenith 2.5-10x56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldtrader3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2013 at 23:37
I would rate all of these scopes as essentially even in optical performance and reliability for my personal experience with these makes and models of scopes.  In terms of brightness, the scope with 56 mm objective lenses, should yield the brightest fields in low light just because of their objective lens sizes.  This based on all of thee scopes being pretty equal in performance in low light, reputation and cost.

Edited by Oldtrader3 - May/05/2013 at 23:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote De_Tomaso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 01:45

From this scopes listed I would choose either Helia C 3-12x56 or Victory 3-12x56. Both are optically  great scopes and you will not go wrong with either one of them. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seawolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 04:30
Of the scopes listed the Zeiss Victory Diavari 3-12x56 is the clear winner.
Kahles make good sopes, but take a back seat to the high end Zeiss in this case.

The Leica 2,5-6x42 is a dark horse with very good optics, but as a low light scope it will be a tiny bit handicapped by the x42 objective lens.
 
I use the big Zeiss 3-12 x56 for low light and night hunting, and where I live it is regarded as the top of the line anything else is compared against.
Another thing to concider is the reticle.
If you are young and have good eye sight, almost anything will do, but there is no accident that European low light/ night hunters prefere the #4 and #1 reticle.
The #4 A as in the Leica might be a bith to "thin" and open for low light use, but still work fine for most guys.
So my pick will without a doubt be the Zeiss Victory.
 
By the way, this is my "low light" deer and pig rifle.
A Ruger M77 in 35 Whelen with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 and illuminated #40 reticle.
Loaded with 250 gr Woodleigh it is a deadly combination Wink
 
 
 


Edited by seawolf - May/06/2013 at 05:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 06:57
Originally posted by stilhuntin stilhuntin wrote:

Can't make up my mind. How would you rate the following for deer hunting 200-300 yards in low light (30 minutes past sun down)? The more research I do the less I see a clear winner!
All are in the same price range and 30 mm or 1 inch doesn't matter to me. I will be hunting from a stand most of the time. I know the Leica has a smaller objective lens, but I have heard many good things about them and the others as well.

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

Hope you guys don't mind all the questions and posts, but this the most knowledgable and friendly group I have seen.
 
How would i rate these ? ans Tops. How could you go wrong with any of these?
        Seawolf thats a real nice hunting rig Smile
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stickbow46 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 07:33
To stir the pot a little,have you taken a look at the Premier Heritage illum hunter?Side by side it beat out my S&B Zenith,my Leica but not my Hensoldt that was too close to call.I'm only talking about glass resolution in this situation.Also have you taken a look at the Zeiss Victory HT,I haven't had a chance to look at one yet but I hear fantastic things about that scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 07:49
Originally posted by seawolf seawolf wrote:

Of the scopes listed the Zeiss Victory Diavari 3-12x56 is the clear winner.
Kahles make good sopes, but take a back seat to the high end Zeiss in this case.

The Leica 2,5-6x42 is a dark horse with very good optics, but as a low light scope it will be a tiny bit handicapped by the x42 objective lens.
 
I use the big Zeiss 3-12 x56 for low light and night hunting, and where I live it is regarded as the top of the line anything else is compared against.
Another thing to concider is the reticle.
If you are young and have good eye sight, almost anything will do, but there is no accident that European low light/ night hunters prefere the #4 and #1 reticle.
The #4 A as in the Leica might be a bith to "thin" and open for low light use, but still work fine for most guys.
So my pick will without a doubt be the Zeiss Victory.
 
By the way, this is my "low light" deer and pig rifle.
A Ruger M77 in 35 Whelen with the Zeiss Victory 3-12x56 and illuminated #40 reticle.
Loaded with 250 gr Woodleigh it is a deadly combination Wink
 
 
 


+1 on the thoughts of the fine gentleman from Norway. It's fine to render and opinion, but actual field usage says it all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seawolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 08:49
Thank you bugs...you made this old man blush.....Embarrased
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cbm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cbm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 10:20

Kahles are awesome ! I think my 3-12x56 was every bit as good as my buddy's Diavari 3-12x56 in low light.....with the exception of the reticle. The Diavari #4 is a very bold reticle. I don't like it for target shooting, to be honest I don't like it any time but at dark. In pitch black dark there is no doubt that the Zeiss #4 is about as good of a non illuminated reticle as your going to find. I had a 4a on my Kahles and it was tough to see after dark.

Looks like Leica is coming out with a 3-12x50 illuminated reticle.Might want to throw that in the mix.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 11:16
Leica has had illum scopes[called Magnus] out in Europe for quite some time but were not allowed to bring them into the USA.I beleive the reason was an ongoing court battle with Swaro about the illumination similarities .I realy hope this case has been settled,I think their glass is in the top 5 & I would love a 4A illum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cbm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 12:44
Yeh, their website has two models of a scope called ERi and the illumination is on the side now like a Zeiss instead of how they were originally done like a Swarovski.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 14:27
CBM, have you heard any info on a  release date & price ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cbm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 14:48
No I just happened to look at their website this morning ! I was hoping to scroll down and see a 2-12x44 or something ......but the 3-12x50 has my interest up !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 17:40
Got a return call from them,I was told they have no info on the new scopes as to the delivery time but the prices will be $1650-$2350 sugessted price.
 
Sorry for hi-jacking the original subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 18:31
I saw the new Leica ERi illuminated scopes this weekend at the NRA show in Houston, and I thought they were VERY impressive. Illumination is an amber-orange color. I liked the illumination control very much. Other than the addition of illumination and the associated control knob on the saddle opposite the windage turret, they're exactly the same as the non-illuminated Leica ER, which is to say outstanding!

It's hard to argue against any of the scopes in the OP's list, and I like each for different reasons. If low light performance is the highest priority, the 56mm Zeiss wins out. But, for an all-around hunting scope, I like the Leica ER just a touch better. It has equivalent resolution to the Zeiss, but to my eye, its image has a bit higher contrast and more vibrant colors, and it seems to control flare better. Plus, I don't personally like huge objective bells. My own self-imposed max objective size is 50mm, which also gives you more than adequate low light performance on a high end scope.

I might have a different opinion if I lived somewhere that allowed big game hunting at night, but I do hog hunt at night, which is legal where I live. I've found if I have sufficient moonlight to see my target through my better scopes, I haven't seen a significant enough difference between my Zeiss Victory 2.5-10X50 and my buddy's Zeiss Victory 3-12X56 to warrant the tradeoff in scope bulk for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2013 at 23:09
Thanks for the updated info RD Ted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stilhuntin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2013 at 19:27

Thanks for all the comments and I had not researched the new Leica illuminated scopes, but they look awesome. The 4A reticle would be just about perfect. The scope will go on a new rifle and the Leica in 42mm or 50mm would seem like a great fit. A big plus is the great optics and no one I hunt with has a Leica. I think 56mm may be too large for the rifle. Now to wait for them to come to SWFA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2013 at 20:38
[QUOTE=stilhuntin]

Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory Diavari 30mm   1
Kahles-3-12x56-Helia-C-30mm           2
Kahles-3.5-10x50-Helia-KXi. Don't know much about an illuminated scope. Never had one.
Leica-2.5-10x42-ER-30mm

 QUOTE]
Until you factor in illumination the 56mm objectve is the one feature that makes those two brightest in  low light.  The problem then becomes is a 56mm objective larger than desirable does it make it too big and clunky? The Kahles 3.5-10x50 KXi actually might be the best choice primarily due to its illuminated reticle and the fact that 50 mm is a lot less bulky than 56mm but the down side is that you also loose somethin on power range not just on the high end but also on the low end.  Note with  56mm objective anything 8x or lower will be bright as it gets and with 50 mm anything 7x or lower will be bright as it gets. It is more of a tragedy to step up from 3x on the low end  to 3.5x on the low end and even a 2.5x or 2x on the low end would be greatly desirable in low light or at night because when it gets dark you are usually working much closer. Personally I can stand to give up something on the low end but if I do I sure better be getting a lot on the high end like a 4-16 or a 5-20    for low light what do you think of these:
 
Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope 4 Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59312
  • Matte
  • 4
  • 30mm
$2,229.00 
Swarovski 2-12x50 Z6i 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA69338
  • Matte
  • Illuminated 4A
  • 30mm
  • 2nd Generation
$2,949.00 
Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6i 30mm Riflescope Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6i 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA69238
  • Matte
  • Illuminated 4A
  • 30mm
  • 2nd Generation
$2,779.00 

 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/07/2013 at 20:43

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