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VX OR Z5

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rustic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 13:40
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Rather than read the flaming above, I'll address the original poster's question.

In general, Leupold isn't the best option.  About 20 years ago, they were top of the heap, everyone improved their stuff, leupold sold on name.  In recent years, they have made improvements, but they do not yet warrant my cash.

I have handled a few of their newer offerings and thought they were much better than their stuff from 5-10 years ago, but far from best of the best.

In contrast, Swaro makes great stuff, great glass, great customer service.  I am not a fan of the ballistic turret, but it does work.  I much prefer, for a hunter, capped turrets and a ballistic reticle.

Were it my money, It'd go to Swaro.  Maybe in 5 more years Leupold will be back in the game, but for now, you are paying for name recognition they earned many years ago.

Be advised, the trick to low light is low magnification.  Cranking even a $3000 scope up to 18X in low light will result in poor performance, unless the scope has a 100mm objective.

Additionally, there might be other options that are a better fit.  At what max ranges are you taking shots?  Are you hunting with binos and/or spotter, or just rifle scope?


All things considered the most disappointing about the VX-6 is the bulk and weight... far from "light" weight and compact.

I would take a z3/vx3 over an vx6 any day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 13:50
It depends on which z6 you're looking at but your right, with the 30mm tube, it has a little more mass vs. 1" tube. The z3 3-9x36 is by far the winner for compact and light weight that's for sure.




Edited by mike650 - January/28/2013 at 14:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:04
Well, since several of you guys are just guessing what I meant, I'll go ahead and tell you, at least in one instance, what i meant when I said glass isn't the only criteria.  I've seen most all the highest end stuff, and owned an S&B Summit with duplex reticle.  The thin wires of the duplex reticle were razor thin, and made for a not so great last light scope in light of the supreme glass it had.    The eyebox at higher mags was also not very user friendly.  I also had a SwaroA, at the time only a $750 scope.   After hacking a 140 yard shot at a 190" muley buck, it was determined it had a wandering POI and wouldn't hold zero.  Erector was toast.  Swaro fixed it, I sold it.    Then there's the large oculars that some of the euro scopes have that require higher rings, etc.  I'm not fond of those either.  I'm very fond of the Elite 4200, Conqests, VX3, VX6, and FX3 right now.  Glass is plenty good enough past legal light.  If any of them give me trouble they'll likely go down the road too.  The Conquest HD has my interest right now but I'm not going to pass judgement until I have one mounted on a rifle and use it.  

I have no bias, and could care less what people use or buy.  None of my business, and more power to those who like the high $$ Euros.  I used to be one of those.  I will say this though (flame suit on)...the VX6 is the most user friendly variable I've ever seen, especially at higher mags.  It compares very favorably optically with my buddy's Z3 and Z5 and the duplex reticle is perfect for my 52 yr old eyes.  After only 200 rounds, dials are on the money.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floridamark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:13
Max 500 Yards. Both Max range 500 yards or so. Both binos and/or spotter.  What scope do you see as a better option?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:42
Originally posted by floridamark floridamark wrote:

Max 500 Yards. Both Max range 500 yards or so. Both binos and/or spotter.  What scope do you see as a better option?

I'm not sure I understand your question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:44
If max range is 500, and you have binos and spotter, I'm not sure an 18X is needed.

You may like higher magnification scopes, some do; however, I have first-hand experience with too much magnification and an animals leaving the optic's field of view just when I needed him not to.

I hunt hogs allot and frequently take long shots, and seldom do so at greater than 10X.



Do you stalk or hunt from a blind or fixed position?
Are you shooting from mostly supported positions or off-hand or similar?


There are many options, some better than others.

And a note for/on Raider: there exist within every population a certain number of outliers, those for whom the common experience is no experience at all.  Surely, somewhere in the world, there is a guy that saw a Porsche 911 Turbo that was slow as hell, and invariably someone saw a Ferrari beaten summarily by a Chevy Volt.  For the rest of us, Porsche makes a fast car, Chevy volts suck on many levels, Leupold break with startling regularity, Swaros are quite rugged and well made, and good glass is a good thing, and far more important than many other attributes.

If I had a dollar for every spike or button buck shot because an optic was not up to par, I'd have more than a few dollars.

To each his own, and question everything, even this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:00
I have not read through the whole thread since it looked like the beginning of a flame war, so I will comment on the original post.

VX-6 is the best hunting scope Leupold has made to date, but optically Z5 is still better, though not by all that much.  

Whichever one you go for, make sure you get it either with a thick and visible reticle that does not disappear on you in low light or with properly worked out reticle illumination (or both).

If you decide to go non-illuminated, you should also consider Leica ER 3.5-14x42.  I spent a fair amount of time with a couple of Leica scopes this past year and I could not be more impressed.  The version I have been playing with is the one with the IBS reticle and while holdover reticles are not always my thing, this one is rather intelligently designed.

They are as good as any other high end scope out there and better in some respects.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floridamark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:01

I was replying to rancid coolaid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floridamark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:04
I do like the lecia. Both my range finder and Binos are lecia. I have never seen one of there scopes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floridamark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:07
The entire reason I put the VX6 there was because of the Illuminated Ret. With a custom CDS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:09
Here's my hunting buddy's wall.  All but the one on the left (his boy's first buck) are his.   The top one was a guided hunt in Sonora, MX, the other 3 DIY private land Texas bucks.  There is 782" of bone on those four bucks , all taken since 2006 with his 7STW, 140 corelokts, and a 10 year old 3-9x40 VXII.  He obviously knows how to use what equipment he has.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:16
those are mule deer..... they don't count!  Don't even need a scope for them do ya?  Pretty sure all the ones that I've seen killed were with open sights.  For crying out loud, they practically let you walk right up to them.  My best friend got one with a spear 2 years ago!




ok.. just kidding.  Nice bucks
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:20
"Optics Professional" where, exactly?

Your point is...um...I have no idea what your point is.

Floridamark, I too have spent time on the Leicas, they are great scopes and would be good options.  A few of their reticles are very, very thin, keep that in mind.  But their glass is great and the eye relief puts you far enough away from the ocular that shooting a heavy recoil gun shouldn't get you kissed by the scope.

I would also add the Swaro Z3 scopes, the 3-10 or 4-15 would be a good fit (neither is illuminated, but the glass is quite bright, shouldn't be a problem unless shooting way past legal hours or shooting pests under moon and starts.)

Also look at the Trijicon 2.5-10 and Premier Hunter.

And finally, Kahles is making great stuff, and in your pricerange.  Consider this one:

None of my recommendations is 18X, I much prefer the 12X and 15X top ends, and usually spend much more time in the 3-10X range.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:26
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

And a note for/on Raider: there exist within every population a certain number of outliers, those for whom the common experience is no experience at all.  Surely, somewhere in the world, there is a guy that saw a Porsche 911 Turbo that was slow as hell, and invariably someone saw a Ferrari beaten summarily by a Chevy Volt.  For the rest of us, Porsche makes a fast car, Chevy volts suck on many levels, Leupold break with startling regularity, Swaros are quite rugged and well made, and good glass is a good thing, and far more important than many other attributes.

If I had a dollar for every spike or button buck shot because an optic was not up to par, I'd have more than a few dollars.

To each his own, and question everything, even this.

Great glass doesn't make up for being a schittty hunter.  Do these guys you know have binos?   You're arguing with me over stuff I've never said, and even agree with you on some of the arguments you're making against me.  Like I said, I've seen most every high end hunting scope made.  I know great glass when I see it and I've seen plenty of it and I love it.  They all break, even the euros.  That's why they have CS and repair departments.  Do you have stats or something that shows how often scopes of particular makers break?  I'd love to see it.  Like I said, if this VX6 "breaks with startling regularity", it's going down the road quickly.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:28
I see a pattern here...  when all else fails, post pictures and deflect.  Big Smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:29
Laugh Above
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:30
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

"Optics Professional" where, exactly?

Your point is...um...I have no idea what your point is.


A 195" avg with a lowly VXII should have provided all the clue you needed to "get it".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:32
Deflect what?  The fact that one doesn't need $2000 glass to kill giant bucks?  I guess you guys have missed that point that I agree with you for the most part.  People get carried away with what is necessary.  If a guy just wants "x"  brand scope then get after it.....I'm all in.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobbyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:33

If the 3-18X50 Leupold VX-6 is anything like the 2-12X42 optically you will not be disappointed. The only thing the Swaro has over it is weight and marginally better glass.  But with illumination,CDS, and price the VX-6 is hard to beat.  Go put your hands on them and do the touch and feel test. No matter which one of the two you get you probably can't go wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 15:33
+1 on the Premier hunter.I have an Illum one ,great scope but they seemed to have disappeared There's talk that the Premier hunter might not make the Canadian line up,so get one while you can!
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