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Leica's new $3k porro binocular |
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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Posted: January/17/2013 at 17:58 |
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It is offered up as a game changer . Thing is it is the new range finding Geovid. Range finding binoculars, are certainly not new, this is I think, Leica's third model. They tout the game changer as the advances in range finding technology (bow hunters might take some umbrage there since it does not seem to range with ballistic compensation at archery ranges). I guess I better not forget to add that there seems substantial improvement in overall fov too.
However, there seems to be a more significant game changer here aside from the new range finding abilities. That is the fact that the new Geovid is not a roof prism glass, but a porro binocular. Not just any porro either, but a new, (or at least little used design) called the Perger Porro. It looks like this system allows the unique shape of the Geovid barrels to lend themselves better to installing the range finding technology into the light path of the binocular. While it seems the patents seem to focus on the Geovid, I tend to wonder if there is a potential for Leica to set the alpha binocular world on its ear and offer the new" Porrorvid" from Leica...or some such (I'm guessing probably not).
Edited by Klamath - January/17/2013 at 18:04 |
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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Wood
Optics GrassHopper Joined: August/22/2012 Location: Spokane Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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When are they going to get a clue?? I was getting all excited cause I thought MAYBE NOW they have the ultimate hunting tool for bow hunting optics with the button on the right side and angle compensation, but I guess not. Seems that Leupold still has the best bow hunting range finder for now. |
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God is good
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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Actually I suspect the problem is that long range and short range laser range finding are likely two different sets of technical difficulties. By the time they add a short range interchangeable laser module, the thing may not be in the cards right now. Another thing is that trajectory calculation for 300 fps arrows is different math than 3,000 fps bullets, so that is certainly part of the equation as well. One additional problem may be that the range finding binocular is now pretty well clued into 10x and the further the unit will range the better. The best archery solution might be something like the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 or the Katmai 6x30 with a short range laser module and arrow trajectory specific calculations. Different tools for different uses.
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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I really like this design idea, other than the cost. A porro makes sense in a rangefinding binocular, as it could counteract some light loss from the display screen.
That 374 foot field of view in the 10x model is outstanding. I am working on getting my hands on one. |
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-Matt
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I will do a comparison article with the new Geovid, Swaro and Zeiss rangefinding binoculars.
I was impressed with the new Leica (I got to play with it extensively at the press event), but the proof is in the pudding. I want to see it side by side with other top end competitors. ILya
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FOsteology
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/21/2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I look forward to your comparison and observations ILya.
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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Even as a hunter, I have no particular use for any range finder, don't own one. I know I am going to get some sideways looks on that, but that is how I am. I might be real interested in a new binocular only version of this, it would be interesting to see what percentage of the cost is due to the laser range finding system.
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Dangit, I was perfectly satisfied with my Zeiss RF bino's and now Leica has to come out with these.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I asked and they said that they have no immediate plans for a non-LRF binocualr that uses these prisms. If they ever make one, I'll be the first in line to get it. ILya
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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Interesting qualifier.
I will be quite surprised if they don't offer standard bins in this prism design.
It does remind me of the old Bausch and Lomb slender porros.
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-Matt
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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The very first question I asked at the press conference was whether they will have a non-LRF binocular with those prisms. They said there are no current plans for it, but that does not mean there won't be in the future. They simply have not made the decision yet. ILya
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Considering how Leica brings new items to the market, we might all die of old age before that happens. ILya probably remembers how long it took for Leica to get those new riflescopes from their announcement, to a prototype and then to actual production. Personally, I think that hurt their sales alittle bit as some folks were thinking they ran into problems. Their sales seems to be slow as I don't hear all that much about them around discussions of high end scopes.
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Our small guiding operation is enrolled in several Guide and Outfitters programs including Zeiss, Swaro, and Leupold. We are not enrolled in Leica's after repeated attempts to find out about their program. We never got the first reply. Leica is probably the most unresponsive and unimpressive of any of them. Regardless of what some believe, I constantly hear of how people got screwed by Leica over warranty or repairs, especially on 2nd hand and demo goods that they still demand a premium price for. I asked them questions on these subjects at the DSC show a couple of weeks ago. They looked at me like a dog looking at a yo-yo most of the time. It's a shame because Leica has excellent products, but when you can deal with Swaro's world class service, repair, and overall concern for their customers, who needs Leica?
Leica can't give away those rifle scopes unless there is a steep discount involved. |
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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I might be right behind you in the line . I have never been too interested in uber expensive binoculars, but as time passes, I have no doubt there might come a time where I might appreciate one, but maybe ultimate benefit to uber glass is to be had with younger eyes, but that is another topic I suppose. I may be better able to buy one now, rather than later. I tend to like things that "get outside the box" as a general rule of thumb, I can be an early adopter on some things, one thing that appeals to me with the perger porro. The thing is here, in comparison to their debacle with their scopes, is that the binocular design development is already done. All they really need to do just make some without the laser components. Now without those components, they may have some additional leeway to tweak some of the strictly binocular aspects, but for Leica these are already wide fov's, especially the 10x. But these would have to get south of $2k as a binocular only to really get my attention. So the thing is, just how much of that $3k price is the binocular, and how much is the range finding system. That may well be something Leica wishes to keep to itself, for whatever reasons. As to their customer service, I hear both good and not so good things, something I'd need to investigate further before I spent that kind of $$.
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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Jon A
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/14/2008 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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What are they saying as far as the improvements to the rangefinding capabilities? Will it be significantly more powerful/capable of longer ranges? I probably would have gotten one of their last models a long time ago (especially when they were having the sale) if it had a more powerful laser.
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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The specs say they range to 2,000 yds which Leica claims is class leading. I have no idea why anybody would need more than that. One of my skepticisms with range finders is due to the shake induced by pushing the button, do you really know if you ranged your buck or a rock in the general neighborhood. That shake induced error has to be there and has to increase with range and with magnification. |
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Most of those yardage specs are on reflective targets too. Deer and other game aren't reflective, obviously, so the range is cut way, way down.
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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Right, reflective too. I'm not sure how much the ranging on a non reflective target can be helped much. |
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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Wood
Optics GrassHopper Joined: August/22/2012 Location: Spokane Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Most RFs have a scan mode. Just hold the button down till you're sure. |
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God is good
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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To be clear, I do not intend to try and argue against anybody using a rangefinder. I have said I don't, and I realize I might be a lone voice. I don't use them because I don't have any faith in them, not because I don't think they serve the purpose of a noble concept. For me they seem not to work real well on non reflective game animals past 400 yards, at which point a rangefinder is not of a lot of use.
In my experience, they are great for reflective targets. They work great in my usage for work in installing irrigation systems for ground truth checks of Google Earth and ArcGIS GPS waypoint computer data. Get a half dozen guys with range finders and start comparing and from what I've seen the results are all over the place. The scan button is a fine idea, but the longer you hold the button, the more you will strain with the binocular to focus on your target, the more you will wiggle, and pretty soon the range finder is programmed to come up with a figure. The Lecia is probably at least as accurate as other expensive stuff.
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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