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Scope for kids deer rifle |
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gremcat
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/17/2012 Location: Raleigh NC Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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Posted: December/11/2012 at 18:55 |
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So I had a few questions regarding a scope for a kids short range deer rifle. I tried a couple different 4x and 2-7 VX2 Leupolds but settled on a 4x32 Zeiss Conquest for my sons 16" barreled encore with Low Warne rings. I also bought a VVA .22 barrel for it to practice this summer. The problem we are having is two fold. He shot a 3 pointer at 75 yards and needed alot of help finding it in the scope ( close to dark blocked by trees) Then a few days later a nice 130 class came out 10 feet from the stand and he lost itin the scope. I have noticed he moves his head around instead of the gun. Fortunately he nailed a 4 pointer that same night so he was thrilled. We practiced good cheek weld all summer but I fear the 4x scop might be over powered for such short ranges. I am leaning to another scope either a 1.75-6 Leupold VX 3 or
other. My one question involves a term I have heard bounced around "scope box" Do some scopes have more forgiveness of less than optimal head position? Should I be looking for a larger objective ( say 1.5-6x40 LPS or will I have the same forgiveness and FOV from a low power with a 32 mm objective? I have read some about scope design but haven't seen anywhere any points on side to side blackouts so to speak and what causes some scopes to be easier to get behind than others. I also noticed he gets set up behind my 6x42 VX3 faster than the Zeiss though atshort rangeI think 6x would just frustrate him. I was thinking of a set up similar to what Burris offers in there Mtac I believe with a red dot on top of a 1.5-6 but have no experience with red dots and wonder if slighly incorrect head position would affect POI I also don't want my son to get in the habit of raising his head of the stock. I intend to spend alot more time with him but just wantto set him up as best as I can for all the variables of hunting from a treestand. Oh and for the record he is 11 and small for his age. He has shot comfortably with a coach at 200 yds with a .22-250 all the way down to 50yards open sights. Any help is appreciated. Thanks,
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biggreen747
Optics Journeyman Joined: October/16/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Wow... I've dealt with this exact situation the past couple years. I built a .243 for my wife and kids and initially topped it with a 4-12 vortex viper because that's what I would do on a rifle in that caliber. Boy was I off. I then decided to put a fixed 4x weaver classic on it since the wife or kids never bothered to change magnification. Well. It took my daughter forever last year to find her doe in that scope. So more scope swapping ensued and I ended up with my 2-7 Vortex viper on it. That seemed to be the easiest scope for them to use as it offered a good fov at low power and more than enough mag as they rarely went above 4-5x with it. My son (10) took his first deer with it this year at 187yds 20 min before sunrise and never moved the mag off of 2. Either the 1.75-6 or a good 2-7 would serve your purposes well. A 32mm objective at that low of power will still offer a good fov. The larger 1.5-6 scopes thend to be on the heavy side and that is always an issue with my kids. smaller and lighter is preferable. As to the eye box. I have found that the more forgiving the eye box usually the larger the ocular lens, not always but in most cases. I initially tried to put a 3-12 Nikon Monarch on that .243 because of the forgiving eye box but it didn't work in med rings because it interfered with the bolt as the ocular is huge to accomadate the forgiving eye box. On a single shot like your Encore it may interfere with hammer operation. I would also rather have them develop a good cheek weld instead. I worked a lot with my son just raising the rifle and dry firing to ensure he had a good feel for head position prior to hunting with it. I think a high mounted red dot above a scope works fine on an AR but would probably not be so great on a hunting rifle. I think you are on the right track with something in the vicinity of 2-7. You may also want to look at the 2-7 Bushnell Elite. Unfortunately Vortex discontuded their 2-7 viper.
Edited by biggreen747 - December/11/2012 at 21:35 |
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We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
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gremcat
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/17/2012 Location: Raleigh NC Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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I tried some Leupolds in 2-7 and they seemed pretty crictical of the eye box. Wish I could find a Zeiss in 2-8 configuration but discontinued. I see Leupold LPS in 1.5-6x40 but they are a little steep 700+
Also thinking about a nikon monarch 2-8 x36 or a discontinued Burris euro 1.5-6x40. I know Nikon had the same monarch gold in a 1.5-6x40 but also discontinued. I should have bought the 2-8 Kahles when I got the 3-10 from CDNN but now anything Kahles is in the 2000 range at least. |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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try vortex???
They make a nice 2-7 with a hunting reticle... |
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No one
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biggreen747
Optics Journeyman Joined: October/16/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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I also have a 1.75-6 vx3 and find it to be kind of in the middle as far as the eye box. If I were choosing between the three available now I would go with a vx3 first, the Bushnell elite second, and the Nikon Monarch 3rd. I have all three models ( vx3 in 1.75-6) although not necassiarly in thatmag range and that is how I would rate them as far as quality.
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We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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I think a 2-7 would be a fine choice.
I bought my daughter an X-bolt Micro Midas in .243 and put a 2-8x42 scope on top of it. Fantastic setup for a kid (or dad). |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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biggreen747
Optics Journeyman Joined: October/16/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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I think they have the Diamondback in 2-7 but I wasn't overly impressed with the dback I had. About the same quality as a Burris FFII, and definitely not on the same level at the Viper. I did have a 1.5-6 Burris Euro Diamond for awhile and that thing was a tank in all respects. A good scope but big and heavy. |
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We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
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rustic
Optics Master Joined: September/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 1461 |
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The extremely forgiving/easy to get behind eyebox is one of the reasons I like the Leopold vx-3's. - especially for "off hand" shots with no time to get set.
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biggreen747
Optics Journeyman Joined: October/16/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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Yeah... Everybody uses our little 243. One of the other kids hunting with us dropped his Win model 70 and broke the stock. He used our 243 to take his firs deer and when he handed it back he had a big grin on his face and said "that rifle is so cool". Ours has become my all purpose truck gun now. |
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We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
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stickbow46
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/07/2009 Location: Benton, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4678 |
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Last summer I built a ruger scout,ported barrel,XS rail & a Minox Z5 1.5-8x32 scope for my 11 year old grandson,he took a 225lb boar at 135 yrd.He loves that scope & my son told me he only uses the mag up at 3 power.Minox makes a great product & with German glass.
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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
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gremcat
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/17/2012 Location: Raleigh NC Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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SO the VX3 1.75 is the right way to go? I am leery of Vortex just don't know enough and like to stick with what I know.
Was thinking of the Burris xtr or MTR or whatever it is in the 1-4 or 1-6 illuminated but I didn't hear anything great about them. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i have a 2x7 vortex viper, it sits on top of a .375H&H and ive killed deer 26 steps from my stand. as far as reliability goes, the viper line and up i have 100% confidence in, and even if they were to fail ( highly unlikely) vortex's cs dept is every bit as good as leupold's if not better. in the same breath if you can afford a vx-3 in the 1.75X6 its a viable choice too.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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biggreen747
Optics Journeyman Joined: October/16/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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I don't think you can go wrong with the VX3. The glass is much improved over the older VX-III which I always thought was very dim even during mid day. Leupold finally stepped up to the plate any got it right this time.
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We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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I have the 1-4 Accupoint Trijicon red post and had it out on the range today as the sun went down, in low light, and the group was sub-MOA at 100 yds. Mine is mounted in Low 30mm quick detachable LaRue rings.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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gremcat
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/17/2012 Location: Raleigh NC Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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I wouldlove it if Trijicon had a circle instead of the triangle.I haveonly seen a few really nice Zeiss scopes with the Circle/Target dot. That was why Iwas looking at the Burris. What is everyone's take on the VX-R line from Leupold? Is a 20 mm objective going to be more critical of the eyebox than a 32mm?
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bugsNbows
Optics God bowsNbugs Joined: March/10/2008 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 11200 |
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Pony up the $ for a Zeiss Conquest Duralyt??? |
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If we're not suppose to eat animals...how come they're made of meat?
Anomymous |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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In the Accupoint line you are working off of either a post or a mil dot or #4 or plex but when you go to a compact ACOG you can have that.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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